[PROPOSAL] Blocking functions

(Neubern Udan) #1

The current Block function is not good enough. Everytime i go to Jita, i have to block dozens of scammers/spammers. At the long term this ends up not working. Players delete their characters, create new ones and the block function ends up being useless.

There should be a block function, which not only blocks the character, but the whole account.

(Markus Jameson) #2

Won’t work the way you want, these throw away toons are likely as often as not on separate throw away accounts so blocking the account won’t block the players next Jita scam alt.

(Rina Asanari) #3

Hmmm. Since the EvE servers can reliably link accounts to specific persons or computers (either by shared EMail addresses or a machine identifier) it is possible to add a block function like “Block this and other (future) accounts from this person”.

The receivers don’t even need to see the identifying feature of the sender’s account, on client side there may just be a SHA256 hash saved of said feature which has been generated when the client asked to block this character and its associates. On loading new character data (like, the portrait), the client would send the hash back to the server, server would compare and then report back to the client if the sender would have to be blacklisted or not.

Given this, the only way to circumvent that block would be to use throwaway email addresses (easy enough) and use different machines or completely wipe and reinstall EvE (though, the latter might not even work if the machine identifier is completely based on the underlying hardware).

So it is technically feasible, even rather easy to implement and with little overhead, and that without passing along sensitive information.

(Black Pedro) #4

No, it leaks sensitive info or at least it allows you to test which characters on on the same account.

With CCP going to great effort to remove that ability from the new API to prevent players from having ways to deduce which characters are on the same account, I don’t see them adding this functionality for a reason as banal as you not liking to block multiple account.

Either learn to ignore them, turn off local chat, or continue blocking them as you are now as a single click really isn’t that much effort.

(Rina Asanari) #5

The hash value saved on the client would only tell if characters belong to the same group of accounts. But okay, if that is still too much of information leakage, said hash list may reside entirely on the server (or, in that case, the blacklisted email and machine ID would not even have to be hashed) in the client’s character or account data, and the client would just ask something like “Blocked?” for new characters seen and the server says “yes” or “no”, but no more specific data.

(Black Pedro) #6

Regardless of how you technically implement it I can still use it to test if two characters are on the same account. I just block one and see if I can still read what the other says.

(Rina Asanari) #7

I just countered the assumption that it “won’t work”, as said by one of the previous posters with stating that it will, and how. It is up to CCP on how much information leakage they’d allow or not, for sure. There may be ways to prevent that sort of testing, like

  • Adding a timer (maybe 24h) so that one cannot immediately see the effects
  • Make the block only effective on future accounts or characters, not present ones

And, maybe adding some “counterweight”, thusly blocked characters are to be completely removed from Local. So one wouldn’t even see hide nor hair of them. In that case, that blocking function would turn into a “use at your own risk” thing, too, because blocking a scammer might involve making his ganker invisible to you, too.

(yellow parasol) #8

i can create one EVE VM per core, without audio, and my only bottleneck on the computer would be memory. ThreadRipper ahoy! Then i can assign each VM a unique MAC and IP (there’s supply for that). there is no way of banning the person behind that. i don’t even mention mails, because there’s an infinite supply for them, just like there’s an infinite supply of accounts.

how do you block a person, who only needs to keep spawning new VMs? your patience will last shorter than his supply of mails, accounts, VMs and IP addresses.

(Rina Asanari) #9

Okay. “Different machines” may include “different VMs”, it all depends on how the machine ID is generated. If it’s just a randomly generated ID on installation or even just on first startup, it would even be easier. Just roll back the machine to a prior snapshot, rinse, repeat. That would simply depend on the effort CCP puts into identifying connected accounts (for the reason of banning, too).

Of course there could be ways around it. The only question is how difficult it would be and how much effort a scammer would put into plying his “trade”.

(Rina Asanari) #10

On the other hand, though… scamming (contract, market, whatever) is a legit tactics in EvE, as long as no RL cash is involved. So it could be that there won’t be a wide-ranged block function just for the reason that it would curb what is regarded as simple gameplay.

(yellow parasol) #11

Exactly. The OP suffers from FirstWorldProblem. If they bother him so much, he already has plenty of options of dealing with it. “but i (don’t) want to” has no relevancy. relevance? relevancy? someone help me out. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Rina Asanari) #12

“Relevance”, I’d say :slight_smile: Sure, sometimes I would like to curb the flood in Local whenever I dock at Jita, too… And while I think that there could be some effective measure (at least, to an extent) to silence the scammers, it would be easier to switch off or disregard Local altogether and practise common sense when searching through contracts oneself.

Trying to pick out the “legit” contracts out of those advertised in Local is like searching for a needle in a whole field of haystacks :grinning:

(yellow parasol) #13

Thank you. :slight_smile:

(Neubern Udan) #14

It´s not only about bothering, but that´s basic visual pollution!
It´s easy, and there´s no way to see or know which characters someone has in it´s account…
When blocking someone, you have the option to ban the account. So in the blockin screen it would be something like “PlayerName (account)” if the account blocked… Second, there´s no way to test all the characters that were blocked. It´s not like you will block an account, then send a message to the player saying “Heyyyy, trying typing something in another character so i can be sure your account is blocked”

Being blocked, there´s no way to find out if other character was also blocked, since… well, you just won´t read it!

(Rina Asanari) #15

The point of contention was that one sees two characters talking, and the reader, suspecting one of them is a sock puppet of the other (or both are sock puppets) would then account-block one and see if the other falls silent, too.

That’s why I was proposing two possible ways to make the effects not immediately visible or conceal the information leakage (the fact that both characters are linked).

But I think there are two reasons why CCP would not implement such a feature, because

  1. It would curb legit gameplay (because market scams are regarded as such)
  2. CCP would rather have people report, not ignore those whose scams would cross the line into bannable offenses.

(Sabriz Adoudel) #16

Speaking as someone that occasionally scams in Jita, I don’t change the character(s) I do it on to avoid blocks. Neither do most of my competition, I’ve gotten to know a good number of their names.

If someone is diligent enough to block me, they aren’t my target audience so I’m fine with being blocked. In fact I’d rather that than some of the things they could do to interfere if they didn’t block me.

Your best bet in Jita is to ignore any and all commercial offers made in local chat. If a deal is too good to be true, it’s either a scam you can’t understand, or a loss leader for another scam. Use local for intel (to warn you of the number and names of war targets in system), and otherwise ignore the channel entirely. Ditto in Amarr.

Scamming is a big part of EVE because it ensures there is always something on the line in every player interaction. It’s also one of the absolute best ways for a new player to acquire their first five billion ISK.

(Markus Jameson) #17

I have profited from that on a couple of occasions, so I generally don’t block the less annoying (less frequent spammers) scammers :wink:

(Sabriz Adoudel) #18

My contact history has a few sales of 10-20 mini PLEX for 1.5-2.5 million each, plus a 10 mini PLEX sale for 2200 million.

The little ones are indeed loss leaders but they induce fear of missing out. Coupled with greed, that’s how I get paid.

As honest advice, you’d do well to ignore both.

(Acadia Prime) #19

why not just give us (the players) the ability to right click something as SPAM and if enough players mark it as spam, that account gets auto banned from posting?

crowd sourcing … I hear it’s what the cool kids are doing.

(Rina Asanari) #20

I see ban wars between TEST, Goonswarm and Pandemic Legion heating up, and everyone getting into their crosshairs being hit by the fallout, too.

“Swarm intelligence” is an overrated phrase.