Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank

Ive always wondered why frieghters don’t hire logi escort teams.

Is there an opportunity there to set up a service specialising in this purpose?
And I ask the question seriously , cos I don’t know the answer.

I don’t find his lesser positions easier to agree with at all. It’s full of ■■■■■■■ problems. Take a closer look. In fact, I didn’t even bother bringing up the small mistakes (i.e. T2 Blaster Talos can be used by alphas) because there were bigger issues to address.

In fact, check out a few of the more glaring issues:

  • Notice how he made a proposal to nuke a play style, and then asked for CCP to turn over data at the end? OP isn’t interested in the truth. He’s already made up his mind, and his hoping that he can find supporting evidence in CCP’s data.
  • He also brought up gankers deleting alpha clones in order to circumvent security status penalties, but then mentioned that negative security status was meaningless. That doesn’t make sense. I mean, if negative sec status is meaningless, why would gankers be rerolling characters to get around it? They wouldn’t. What alphas are actually useful for, however, is to let casual gankers to participate and let new guys try it out without picking up killrights and negative sec status on their main toons. So, that’s the real reason why he wants to get rid of it. To increase the barrier to entry and make it harder for casual gankers to participate.
  • Oh look, 60k EHP Mission fit goles with 2.4 billion isk price tags can be ganked by NINE catalysts. So, should that mean that these blinged out golems should use travel fits, eve gatecamp check, or other risk management strats when traveling through Uedema? Of course not. Obviously it means that ganking needs to be nerfed.
  • Suicide ganking results in guaranteed ship loss, and the rapid response time forces players to maximize DPS. Naturally, gankers flocked towards the ships with the best DPS to isk ratios. And now OP’s argument is basically, gankers found a strat that works -so, we need to nerf it so that it doesn’t work.

Yeah, great evidence based argument. Much wow. No bias. Many proof.

In fact, I’m so convinced, I’m going to go biomass all my gankers.

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They would, if travelling were dangerous enough for logi services to be profitable.

I’ve been in escorting fleets before, to get a freighter a couple of jumps safely into null sec. It’s nice cooperative gameplay where you have to work together against potential enemies who might disrupt the supply lines.

However, since jump freighters exist outside high sec and in high sec freighting is covered by CONCORD response timers that are faster than most players could respond, there’s rarely if ever need for an escort fleet for freighters.

Whenever a freighter is attacked in high sec, the short time CONCORD allows means that the response window for other players to interfere is very small. And the high amount of ships required to take down a freighter makes it a very infrequent occurrence.

A change to the game to get more of this fun cooperative defensive emergent gameplay like fleets guarding valuable freighters requires two things:

  • to increase frequency of attacks on freighters
  • to increase the ability for players to do something about attacks on freighters.

Both of those points will be covered by an increase of CONCORD response timer, as that reduces the amount of ships necessary to start a gank but also increases the effect an anti-ganker can have on those ganks. More ganking and anti-ganking gameplay for everyone with one little change.

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It doesn’t matter. It’s not about the argument, it’s about the reactions. And the reactions, at least from anyone who isn’t familiar with this ■■■■■■■■ already, will be positive just because the post is dressed well.

The OP knows what they’re doing, which is why I was inclined to kind of nip it in the bud by exposing what’s obvious (to me, at least). People should be aware that they’re being taken for a ride.

Also, look at the alt like-spam going on by characters with no history of C&P activity, if not an outright lack of forum activity entirely. I’m sure those are all unique individuals who simply stumbled upon this gem of a post in an obscure section of a forum that nobody even visits.

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I appreciate you took the time to waste your time.

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Your entire reply is great, but this one especially. When I’m scouting for a gank target, I come across dozens of ships that I can’t or don’t want to gank, until I find that one person that is stupid enough to be a good target. All the others are smart enough to not get chosen as target, but that one person that I kill is like “ganking so op” “pls nerf ganking, it’s terrible” etc.
The fact ganking seems so easy is because you don’t see the amount of times it doesn’t work, but only when it works.

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Question to all…

Is it permittable for the potential gankee to draw CONCRD preemptively by having an alt in a cheap ship shoot said gankee?

I’ve witnessed that done several times, the gankers got slaughtered.

Small steps is called balancing which is required in an mmo, as for these suggestions I have no idea not a specialist but damn is the amount of effort put into this impressive.

That was pure emotion, I know you can do better than that.

They’ve put some effort in formatting, that’s a welcome sight.

But they haven’t put effort in convincing people. I mean, look at this – what kind of game are these people playing?

“Interfering with other players is against the morality of gameplay?”

“Is harrassment?”

:joy:

… that’s certainly not EVE online, known for it’s hostile space, player interaction, player industry and market that depends on the destruction of hostile player interaction.

They may have put in effort into formatting their text nicely, but they didn’t put effort into getting to know what kind of game this is.

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Yes. In fact, I should at it to my list of strats.

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Must say one thing that seems weird to me is showing the cost effectiveness of short range blaster ships, they are also the least likely to pull off the gank, as the guy they are shooting might fit an overprop mod, web and a neut and wam pulls range and that’s one dead gank ship.

There is absolutely nothing in your OP that gives any incentive whatever for the ‘victims’ of ganking to get better at the game. That’s the problem.

There is a lot that ganker targets can do to avoid being ganked in the first place. For example I have never been ganked while mining. In fact far from ever being killed I’ve actually scored 2 kills rights on failed ganks. There goes the myth that targets can’t fight back.

So clearly I am doing something right, and maybe that’s what you should be emphasising to players rather than nuking ganking. It IS entirely possible to mine, for example, for months on end without being ganked. It just requires following a few basic rules…find a system that doesn’t have loads of ganks on killboard…have gankers set to bad standing…mine as far from the landing point as possibe…and so on.

Changing the target behaviour involves no Eve code changes at all. It simply involves potential targets getting clued up !

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Didn’t you say the other day that 2 ships tried to gank your venture?

But I do agree with you, game mechanics should encourage good play rather than just passive avoidance.

Death to the afk’er I guess thou.

They failed…and I got a kill right. So much for the Venture miner being helpless. It was fun watching Concord zap the gankers. Miner 1 Gankers 0

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I’m tempted to tell people where I will be mining setup a reward for anyone able to successfully gank and see just how hard it really is for someone to pull off if someone is trying to not get ganked.

Training into a mining ship gives me the chills thou.

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When I mine I have the distance to the station be way shorter than the distance to any stargate the gankers might arrive at. For example at one system that distance is just 2AU…and the nearest stargate is 20AU. That means I can flee the minute gankers appear in Local, and arrive at the station before they are even in the area. That doesn’t work with new ganker groups…hence the kill right I got…but against groups like Safety is is a very effective measure.

This is how miners avoid being ganked…rather than nerfing gankers. Eve is supposed to be a battle of wits…not Bambi In Space.

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I think CCP loves ganker. How else to bring in the thrill?

Yeah, so I don’t factor in prey pulling range, upping transversal, or heating resist mods for my “can I gank it” calculations because it’s just not a problem. Now, I’m sure there are guys out there that would do that sort of stuff, but generally speaking, if they’re making themselves attractive gank targets before the gank, they’re extremely unlikely to do anything to thwart me during the gank.

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To be fair I guess 80% of people wouldn’t even try any of that.