The cost of suicide ganking is too low


(Fabulous Rod) #1

I would love to go after suicide gankers but you can’t inflict meaningful losses against these guys because they are always flying disposable ships. I’m very glad that suicide ganking is possible, but in its current form, suicide gankers take practically zero risk for the potential for tremendous rewards. Lacking in equity, SG seems to have become a common griefer tactic and the popular path of least resistance for those looking to flex their aggression, and because of that, has decreased the potential for more interactive pvp in low and null. . Additionally, you can’t even follow them around in high sec or you can be banned for harassment. Never in a pvpmmorpg have I been so denied the potential for vengence and it makes me wonder why this apparent detriment to the game has been allowed to continue as it has.

I propose that suicide ganking require more expensive ships in high sec. This would actually force them to take a risk for their reward, and provide more reward and satisfaction for those looking to combat or seek revenge on those benefiting from what is commonly perceived as a cowardly practice. I’m not sure what the best way to do it is but it would be good to hear some ideas. It feels really dumb that you can’t even autopilot in a shuttle without some coward, who probably gets ■■■■ on in every other game they play, blowing you up just because they can and because it costs them next to nothing.

Perhaps some kind of shield that only certain types of ships would be able to penetrate. Or an expensive module that must be equipped in order to suicide gank. Alternatively, cost could come in the form of negative security status, which gankers should be forced to manage via new rules, or risk making themselves easy targets.

If you agree that this is an issue, what would you propose be done about it?

Edit: The thread has gotten very long and full of spammers who are injecting irrelevant rhetoric, and so I wanted to highlight many of the relevant posts and questions posted pertaining to this topic. These seem to be the more sensible posters:

Black Pedro,The Antichrist666 diablo13, dracvlad had many good posts as well that are worth reading.


Make autopilot usable or remove it entirely
CCP - Ganking
(Patti 'Potato' Patrouette) #2

But,

Is the cost of suicide ganking too low? or is balanced by the extreme cost

of listening to whining about how easy it is, from those who do not appreciate the GUARANTEED loss of your assets, for possibly ZERO reward (lootfairy is mean u know), is the defention of taking a risk.

also correlation does not equal causation- so your narrative about decreasing the potential for interactive pvp in low and null is basically padding, but thanks for the info.

/end thread


(Black Pedro) #3

I don’t know. It’s already pretty easy to get around highsec perfectly safely. And outside pods, shuttles, Ventures and perhaps some frigates, it is pretty hard to gank anything in something “cheap” before CONCORD gets you. You need either a fleet or something pretty expensive (i.e. a Tornado or the like) to solo gank anything of value.

I think if you want to criminals to fly anything not disposable, you probably have to relax some of the more annoying aspects of highsec like the Faction Police. If you just make it super risky (like it is now) where if anyone tackles you, you die to the Faction Police, no criminal is going to undock in anything of value. If you make it super costly, they just won’t undock at all unless someone has made themselves a very valuable target and you have even less chance for interaction between players. You wouldn’t be able to go after suicide gankers because there would hardly be any left.

It’s a tough nut to crack really. If there is some ship too vulnerable to suicide ganking, I think the solution is to buff the EHP or buff the ship in some other way. That might require criminals to use more expensive ships, but they can always just bring more cheaper ships (if they can find enough friends). Not sure there is any way out of this and probably the whole criminal system needs to be thrown out and rebuilt from the ground up to do what you say you want to achieve.


(Toxic Yaken) #4

Realistically, if you want to make it so gankers are more engageable you need to do something to change Facpol/Concord. I like the idea of there being an extreme damage output penalty for gankers and a far longer response time for Concord to give gankers more flexibility in the ships and strategies that they can use and more opportunities for intervention by other players.

But I also think that CCP doesn’t want to touch crimewatch with a 10 foot pole.


(Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri) #5

Citation needed.


(Anderson Geten) #6

Eve is made of simple rules, like : “you attack someone in HS = you die”

You cannot make a rule like “suicide ganking requires expensive ships”, the meaning is too broad to be understood by a computer.

Would you have more precise terms to use ?

I notice following terms that are too broad :

  • suicide ganking : which ? catalysts ? talos ? nades ?
  • requires : how to enforce that ?
  • expensive : what’s the line ?
  • ships : do you include implants, guns ? tags to increase ss ?

(Sindara T'Soni) #7

I think this is the issue for me. You can fly into a High Sec system and find a whole fleet of gankers (or that one guy with 11 alts that forms his own ganking fleet) and be absolutely unable to do anything about them, because if you attack you get Concorded. They are pretty much invulnerable until they decide to act and then it is too late.

It reminds me of other MMOs with the option to turn PvP on or off on non-PvP servers. You can basically use the immunity gained from not being flagged for PvP to find a PvP flagged target, get into position, surround your enemy without risk, then quickly flag for PvP, kill the target and escape. Okay in EVE ‘escaping’ is dying to Concord (in a ship you didn’t mind losing in the first place) but it’s pretty much the same concept / loophole.

I dunno what the solution would be though? If you’ve been Concorded recently then you stay attackable for a day? A week? If you’re a proven ganker you lose your ability to hide behind the protection of Concord?

Real consequences needed … :thinking:

Essentially what we allow at the moment is for murderers to murder and then freely walk the streets under the noses of those they murdered just minutes later, the idea being that because they lost a ship (that they didn’t mind losing anyway) that they have paid the price. Bit of a joke really.

We have a very strange Police force in EVE, that punishes a murderer, then ignores all the psychiatric evaluations that tell them that person is going to murder again, and instead instantly let them loose and protect them … funny society us future humans developed when we passed through the EVE gate …

Just thinking out loud, interesting subject.


(Ima Wreckyou) #8

The cost for troll-posting is too low. Yet I don’t make a thread about it


(The AntiChrist666 Diablo13) #9

If you cause trouble in high sec, your character become a problem for the law, that’s the most logic route.


(Mesacc) #10

I agree with OP. EVE is supposed to be all about risk vs reward. Miners risk expensive ships. Gankers risk absolutely nothing. You pop them and they come right back with another disposable ship, only this time you have a war dec on you. Sec status hit is meaningless. EVE needs ganking to a point but there needs to be balance and gankers need to have skin in the game. Something to lose. Something that hurts of they fail.


(Aurelius Vicci) #11

K… so I’m gonna take this at face value despite the “if it quacks like a troll” rule.

It sounds like you’re asking for somebody to tank your ship for you. Is that what you’re asking for? Because to a certain extent this concession has already been made in the form of the procurer/skiff, etc. A properly tanked ship is already expensive to gank, in terms of the ships required, the guaranteed loss in exchange for an uncertain reward, as has already been mentioned, or in terms of the time/effort required to assemble a big group of gankers, or a smaller group that has developed the skill required to multibox a catalyst fleet.

What more do you want, exactly? The mouse already got his cookie, and his glass of milk. I just don’t know what else anybody can offer you short of literally playing the game for you.


(Captain C0ld) #12

So do it yourself.


(Sere O'Asis) #13

Kill rights are already awarded. If the player receiving the kill right chooses not to act on it, or to not sell the kill right, or even just make it public, there isn’t much anyone can do about that.

However the subject of a kill right still has to live with the threat of retribution, from potentially, all quarters for 30 days.


(Do Little) #14

In my opinion, suicide gankers provide a necessary element of risk in high security space. They kill a tiny fraction of miners, haulers and mission runners but some people never figure out what they are doing wrong and get killed over and over.

There are systems where you can mine in peace - they tend to be a long way from trade hubs. A retriever fit for maximum yield is a much more attractive target than a procurer fit for maximum tank. T2 transports are much safer way to haul stuff than T1 industrials - racial industrial 5 takes 3 weeks to train - it should be at the top of your list if you intend to haul valuables anywhere in New Eden.

Your first step is know your enemy and what you can do to protect yourself
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Suicide_Ganking_101

And heed the words of wisdom from Einstein:
image


(Keno Skir) #15

No you won’t. Follow them if you feel like it.

The word you’re looking for is “freedom”. Why were you autopiloting a shuttle with valuable cargo, or if the cargo was not valuable what’s the problem?


(Fabulous Rod) #16

:rofl:

Its actually comical how so many in this thread have failed to comprehend or are unwilling to acknowledge what this thread is really about. Several of you need to read the first sentence of the OP and try again.

This guy gets it.:+1:


(Arcanith Lionheart) #17

You know that low risk high reward is visible when you see this

That or this one guy just has a lot of disposable income


(Jehle) #18

May not he the same guy! J is a popular starting letter for character names because it appears in the middle of the list of alphabetically ordered overviews. They dont get primaried first! People making ganking alts will know and understand this.


(Arcanith Lionheart) #19

What about the last name?


(Jehle) #20

Uh… Group of players decided to make ganking alts and colluded to create characters with the same last name?

Goonswarm did this with vcbee