Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank

You argued for ages that it was impossible for players to use local and dscan to avoid gankers.

And yet again when called out you couldn’t bring yourself to say you were wrong and made a fool of yourself trying to kill board shame me instead.

Oh and then you decided to have a tantrum like a 12 year old girl and mute my posts.

To this day it’s the most amusing exchange I have ever had on the internet

All I see is confirmations of what I’ve said

That is because you turned that into a yes/no question in your own mind. It was pathetic.

I blocked you because you were trolling, and you are trolling now.

Yeah you found it amusing, so what, I thought your argument was pathetic, you were arguing with your own point. I still find that exchange one of the most clear examples of nasty troll posting on a strawman, was impressive in that sense and the reason why you laughed.

My argument was that by going to quiet systems allowed players to use local and dscan effectively to avoid gankers.

Which you declared to be “impossible”

It was more nuanced than that, you just decided that was what I was saying and then argued about it non-stop for hours. In the end I got bored and blocked you.

You really want to get this thread closed, so with that I am leaving you to it, but you are one dishonest person.

EDIT: Missed the keyboard shaming accusation, it was merely pointing out your lack of experience. Such an emotional reaction. I know full well that killboards are not a full story, however your mining barge and exhumer were exactly the tankless fit that gets ganked. After that you did exploration, I don’t see any kills on gankers, no attempts to stop them, I judge your experience limited and not very accurate.

You decided that was what I said, still makes me laugh.

Don’t forget the attempt at killboars shaming now. And you say I’m nasty. Lol

It’s like you you can only see your own flaws in others.

Good catch there Etch…

Who could ever be against balance ?

Removed reply.

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Can someone link me the “homophobe coaching” incident via EVEmail? Part of me is inclined to automatically assume it’s true and Drac is just gross, but another part of me is inclined to assume that people are just sensitive due to DEI doctrine spreading everywhere.

I love you too, however remember to read what I actually wrote, rather than people stating what I wrote, most Eve forum interaction works on other people stating and arguing about something they made up and placed in the mouth of others. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised by some honesty. But alas I would not hold my breath on it :slight_smile:

Short answer: Did you lost your mind???

Long answer:

You are incorrect in your premise, ie. what is problem.

1-1. Cost-effectiveness imbalance of Gank

First of all, the cost efficiency of a gank involves subbing 20+ accounts to do it. I hate this because I no longer want to multibox and PLEX multiple accounts. But we do know that CPP likes to milk the player base so this is purely intentional.

Multiboxing ganks, or rather the fact that this game is forcing us to multibox it due to the various reasons, is the worst thing about ganking. One thing is when you get ganked by 10 different players and completely another thing is when you get ganked by a fleet of 20 characters with name only differing in number all having same portrait etc. That doubles up the players’ desperation and repulsion towards the game when they get ganked.

What should be done is to give us more time to gank so we are not forced to have 20 accounts to do it. Destruction MUST happen in this game for it to work properly. Since wars are gone, ganking should be made EASIER not harder. The counterargument here was that since gankers will get more time they will make the ganks even more cost efficient by using cheaper ships. However, since the meta is multiboxing 20+ accounts using coercers and catalysts anyway, this argument is no longer valid. Still, CPP is very satisfied with the fact that players must sub or plex 20 accounts because it makes more money so I wouldn’t expect this to happen.

1-2. CONCORD response time delay problem due to “CONCORD Pulling”

CONCORD pulliíng is ■■■■ mechanic which needs to be removed, but your solution is nonsense. What needs to happen is that we get these 3-6 seconds without the need to pre-spawn CONCORD. I don’t understand why this shitty mechanic is there, how’s that nobody else ever complained about it. Spawning/pulling CONCORD is absolutely unfun and absolutely nonsense. We are playing them like idiots.

Just despawn CONCORD after there are no more criminals to punish and make them spawn with delay as if they were spawned already. THIS is what needs to happen at the very least.

1-3. Forcing values on players with different gameplay styles

Well okay, but this game was always about the harsh environment and non-consentual PvP. As someone said, so you (or the player you are defending here) are playing PvP game when you don’t want to PvP ? I think that is spot on.

YES. Highsec ganking is driving players away. But it drives away weak players who would quit sooner or later anyway. And you can avoid getting ganked easily. Since the beginning where I lost my Iteron with 100 mil to Jason Kusion I have never been ganked again in highsec. And not just because I became highsec ganker myself, I still do stuff on my alts, but I am doing in places where ganking won’t occur, I am flying ships that are nearly impossible to gank (it can be killed but they have no way to know I am transferring 1bil in my cargo) and I use autopilot only when I have nothing in cargo and no (or cheap) implants on myself. I even bait gankers hostile to me sometimes - when you know how it works it is very easy to make them gank you and fail or at least get 0 ISK from it. Gankers are simply preying on players who are stupid, impatient, too greedy and lacking knowledge. It is nearly impossible to gank a player who isn’t. You are waiting for him to make mistake and that can take months.

1-4. “Kill Rights” as a means of retaliation is almost non-functional.

Yes. Kill rights are joke. I have 50+ kills rights on nearly all my characters and I am perfectly fine in highsec. This is because I simply don’t do anything else than ganking with the characters that can gank, I do PvE and exploration with alts like this one who are not affiliated with my gank characters. And since I basically never fly anything worth more than t2 catalyst what is point of killing me? The fact that you lose your ship in gank means that “nothing of value was lost”. Even if you activate my KR an kill me at Jita undock, I already written that ship off and I already have 100 more in station to replace. It is just pointless, the mechanics of the game are making KR absolutely useless. And majority of the time I am able to dock or escape anyway and then I let myself to be killed by NPCs which erases the KR and no loss is generated on KB either lol.

Question is what can be done here. I don’t think this has a solution really, as long as the gankers are using dedicated characters for ganking, which is actually basically enforced by CPP by giving us 3 character slots, then there is no way to for KR to have any meaning. I don’t think there are any gankers anymore who would be using their gank chars for anything else anymore. And if they do, they do it in LS/NS/WH anyway so yeah.

1-5. The player’s SS has become mere decoration.

Yes I agree with you. This is definitely wrong. I do it myself because the systems allows it, but actually the reason why ganks are so cost-efficient as you claim is mainly because gankers aren’t forced to care about security status. They don’t have to rat, they don’t have to farm/buy/spend clone soldier tags. This is definitely wrong. It is no logical either as you pointed out with you nice analogy. (Fact that I can just give concord $$$ and few tags and all is forgotten is also not making sense, but without this ganking wouldn’t be possible, ratting is way too slow to retain sec status).

2-1. Add restriction on alpha clones

You didn’t explain why should Alpha clones be restricted in ganking. I am playing as Alpha Clone myself and I highly disagree. As alpha, I can’t loot my victims, I can’t gank anything bigger than t3d or t1 hauler since they buffed barges since I was taking break from EVE. So why is this a problem? I don’t see it. If someone is multiboxing alpha clones, for which nobody ever given a proof, then he is breaking EULA and will be banned. No reason to ban ganking for alpha clones, what comes after preventing them to mine because someone is supposedly multiboxing alpha clones mining in ventures? Nonsense.

2-2. Reduce CONCORD arrival time by 30%.

Correction, INCREASE.

I won’t comment the rest your post now. Overally, you just wrote bs. Ganking needs to be rebalanced but in the very opposite way than you are suggesting.

Because this post will raise typical responses that I am not a ganker and I am hs carebear, and since I play as Alpha and since I don’t really care anymore here is my real identity for all those unbelievers and for Aiko, the queen of trolling and toxicity (how comes this guy is still not banned on forum?)

Honzas Krutas | Character | zKillboard my main and the whole corp is just me. (There are 3 other player characters in my corp but they have been inactive since 2018)


Calm down miner.

A little off topic

That incident starts with a post by Arzimraton Aivoras who has been very anti-gank in that thread.

The first homophobic post was deleted (I think due to flags) to which this is the first response (which retained the quote):
High-sec ganking is one of the main reasons for the outflow of new players - #438 by Sasha_Nemtsov

You’ll have to read a bit between the posts and quoted parts, as I think some original comments have been removed from both sides due to flagging.

A few dozen posts later with the guy making more homophobic insults, Dracvlad comes in with helpful advice to his fellow anti-ganker, to tell him how he should insult people without getting flagged for homophobia.

Rather picking a stance against homophobes or staying out of it, Dracvlad chose to stand with and help his fellow anti-gankers, even if those are homophobes.

That’s about it, I think.

On topic: I don’t think suicide ganks need to be rebalanced. And if it is changed, it believe it should be made easier by delaying CONCORD so that there is more room for ganking with fewer ships, but also more room for people to countergank.

A Little off Topic

Fixed what you should have said, instead of your slanted interpretation.

There needs to be some rebalancing to enable and entice group counter play.

Sure, more or better options to enable more interaction in the form of counterganking can be good for the game when added together with a delay to CONCORD.

A delay to CONCORD itself already opens up the window for more succesful counterganks, but other options could also be nice.

What kind of changes to boost the interaction of ganking and of counterganking did you have in mind?

You already know this, Gerard, but the majority of anti-ganking forum posters will never accept a change which appears to benefit both gankers and their antagonists.

It is not what they understand by the word ‘balanced’.

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Sure they won’t, but it is not like CCCP listen to them or anyone anyway. Imo the reason they don’t want to make ganking easier is because actual meta with multiboxing dozen of accounts suits them perfectly as they cash more money. Not from me, but there seems to be ppls either willing to sub this many account or PLEX it and if they PLEX it, there are still enough whales who are providing that many extra PLEX on market, because in 3 years since I wasn’t playing, the price of 500 plex didn’t raise much.

What do you mean by the word balanced?

You suggest that anything that enables group counter play such as enabling RR against criminals if you aggress them should result in 10 seconds added to the CONCORD response time. I am talking about going back to how it was before, should we have had 10 seconds taken off of CONCORD for this removal of AG group play?

Are you serious?

Well I guess you are? This is why discussing things with gankers is pretty pointless.

I didn’t read all the posts above, but I think flying end-game ships that are worth ganking in high sec should come with some dangers. It’s pretty degenerate for people to make tons of isk exclusively in high sec and play entirely under the NPC safety blanket without ever providing for their own security.

So I think suicide ganks overall are fine, but I wouldn’t mind seeing some more balance changes to some specific ships/modules. Small blasters have always felt a bit whack to me when compared to other small weapons, especially when you see Hecates with what, like 1000 DPS? Don’t nerf catalysts just to stop suicide ganking (or hecates for that matter). Just give us more balance changes that work well in all areas of space. Void ammo is a little bit on the strong side, but it shouldn’t be hard for CCP to deliver some small, incremental balance changes at least a few times a year. Ideally, there should be a situation where picking a different damage type (since catalyst is kin/therm locked) should outweigh the sheer DPS of a catalyst. If that situation doesn’t exist, then perhaps the small lasers, small ACs, rockets, etc. need to be buffed to match the crazy power of Void ammo. It doesn’t have to be a nerf to the good gankers. It can even be a buff to the other things in the same weight class. I would just love to see a little more variety there, and maybe gankers who anticipate their targets and bring the right ganking ships can be more effective than the ones who only have Catalyst alts.

There already are.

You should learn how to do something, before you try to ‘balance’ it.

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