[PvP] ESS Deadspace Grid: No Meaningful Counterplay for Defenders

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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42

Yes, that is my intention.

I’ve been trying to explain I do not think it is a healthy meta if people can fly away in places where it takes literal minutes of burning with microwarp drives to reach.

It’s not engaging gameplay, and causes those places to be abused as safe space.

Luckily the carrier with MJFG you mention is a very telegraphed strategy as they cannot cyno onto the deadspace grid, so you have plenty of time to react and adjust your direction.

Keep in mind that I’m not trying to remove your ability to kite on the deadspace grid, I’m only asking for a boundary.

You can still turn sideways and keep kiting forever if you’re good.

You just won’t be able to indefinitely keep increasing the time it takes to reach you from the warp-in point.

Safe logging has a 30 second delay, and can be countered.

43

That’s based on the supposition that you have only engaged them after they’ve been burning non-stop for some time.

It’s like saying “when the ishtar enters a POS I can’t kill it”

The onus is on you to prevent that scenario. You have a standing fleet, you have an intel network, you have ansiblexes.

What are you talking about right now, you adjust direction when they are mjfging, but two carriers that are somewhat competent will get on you within two booshes. One boosh can be enough depending on the ships they are bringing.

Idk how you can look at this and think “man, burning in a straight line when nobody is around to stop them is too strong”

Don’t you think that people going to your space, and then going out of their way to burn in deadspace to avoid you, might be a reflection that you playstyle is denying you content, not their reaction to it? Do you think if you made effort into atleast appearing engagable, they may actually fight you?

It just seems genuinely in bad faith.

44

Exactly!

And I think there should be no POS-like safe spot for hostiles to hide in when they come to sov null sec.

If you wish to use deadspace to kite, sure!

I just think that people should not be able to “burn a while” to then enjoy POS-like safety in otherwise hostile space.

A boundary still allows you to kite, but limits the ability to keep burning to get safer and safer.

45

So if I anchor a POS in your space, its FC’s job to remove it, not your job?

If I am in your space and want to use an ESS grid to avoid you you can either:

A: Give me a reason to not run away

B: Prevent me from running away

The majority of alliance standing fleets know how to do atleast one of those things, you either bait, catch them, or genuinely offer engaging content.

You “solution” is to remove any possibility for an already demonstrably disadvantaged group to avoid engaging you on your terms.

You haven’t actually established any merit here, your entire value judgement seems to stem from some variation of “I’m entitled to every conceivable advantage in my own space on my own terms.”

46

If you place a POS in my space it’s my job to get rid of it.

If FC puts an unremovable POS-like location in my space, it’s up to FC to get rid of it.

This is why I ask FC to put a boundary on the deadspace grid to get rid of the safe space they created in every sov null sec system.

47

Uh that is entirely incorrect rofl. That means you ceptor/dictor pilots are hot garbage and should either be replaced or retrained.

48

But it isn’t? Just bring a crusader fleet and ram the baddies at 10km/s+. POS safety means I am completely immune until I leave the bubble. There are so many ways to catch people on the ESS grid it isn’t even funny. Like surely all of the nano ganger losses on the ESS grids can attest to that, right?

49

Agree to disagree then. I am pretty confident that any tackler’s chance to “still get me when I drop out of warp” is less than 1%, no matter what 1337pr0h4xx0r Ceptor pilot he is. But I am not in the mood to discuss that to the last hairsplit.

50

As long as we aren’t making mechanic or gameplay changes based on people’s lack of skill, then sure, I will agree to disagree with you!

1 Like
52

So the idea is if a Nano Gang is unable to force an object… is to prevent them by Bubbling the ESS and bring a huge amount of Instalockers to the ESS + Logi + DPS.
Have the same setup on every Gate in System + Combat Probers for the Filament.

So the NANO GANGERS Solution is:
Just have +30 People camping the whole system.

So my point which the outside ESS GRID is a safe space to let run down your timer and not be engable is approved.

  • If you would stay within 100-250km…

You see a boosh… you warp off cause 25 People would wreck you at 0.
^^ You have 5 Seconds to align to XYZ

  • If you get sniped or acknowledge Alpha would kill you…

You warp off, since you are not tackled.

If we camp the System as said… You dislike to be blopped.
Which is the whole point of a GROUP or Team up game.

I am telling you which let the timer run down on the outside of the ESS…
to log off
to Filament
to archive more time to ping for reinforcments

I just pointing out which people dislike this mechanics and it needs to be adjusted.

Your content options for Nano Gangers in Nullsec are

ESS MAIN/Reserve Bank Intrusion
Skyhook roobing
Shoot Structures
Camp Gates/Ansi

If you dislike these options either you open up a Thread with suggestions or contact your CSM to ask for more options…

I am looking at my people and my playstyle and pointing out there is an issue.
We asked for Arenas… people abused the Arena system → Arena System removed since than.

I am not opening a thread about people should not be able to warp off with a combat timer

Even i am able to acknowledge which this should allways be legit option.

tl;dr: Lets compare apples with peaches.
You talking about a Standing fleet which is ruled by “bring whatever ship you like”
vs. a organized (on coms) nano roam

^^ Let me write your answer… We are not organized, everybody brings what they want we just have one rule which the ship should be specialized in NANO. We are not on COMS.
Let me repeat we are not organized… this is pure skill and knowlege how everybody flys.
Did I got this right or is something missing like you force Shield or Armor ?

And don´t tell me I can tell Standing which Ships to bring…
Than you have 0% understanding of a Standing Fleet vs. pinged Doctrine Fleet

Phantomite
First part is handwritten, second part is marked as computer written.
I also wrote this in the post… Why is this an issue?
Could you kindly explain this to me, please?

54

Sorry, are you actually trying to justify by saying “we are unorganised and bad, that’s why we couldn’t fight you” in a thread where you ask for the game to change so you don’t have to bother trying?

2 Likes
55

How did you write so much and so little at the same time

You had at least 11 ships vs 2, you have two celestis which instantly can lock down any thing those 2 ships can do, you didnt need a boosh because the engagement was not stretched over a huge area

and you still ran away

you are blaming your people for not bringing the correct ships…when you had the perfect counter in the ships you brought

all this does is show that the threads that you have been making are not legitimate feedback from someone who has the games interest at heart, and are just a string of complaint threads when something didnt go your way

56

You don’t need instalockers, standing also typically outnumbers the enemy 10 to 1, so if you can’t have tackle on every gate, that’s a skill issue.

So to be clear, you are asserting the basis of the game is teamwork.

And here you’re saying that you shouldn’t be expected to work as a team, to outplay the people that are.

Kane, the majority of decent standing fleets, will have a shotcaller, that’s when they perform at their best, if YOUR group has a culture of blindly, mutely flying into enemies, that is entirely YOUR FAULT. That is a failure of YOUR team, YOUR group to function effectively.

There’s 0 game reason to balance the game around your refusal to work as a team, while you yourself insist the game is best played as a team.

You talk as though you are in the top 1% of players, and if you’re struggling to do something, it must mean it is the game being unfair.

I’m sorry to say, and I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise, you are not a talented player, and brave is not a talented org, the issues you are struggling with have been solved by other standing fleets by having a modicum of co-ordination and teamwork expected.

You also don’t even need to rely on standing, or an alliance ping, half the corps in brave can form enough people to go toe to toe with any small gang corp.

57

I was fixing text part like making warpable bookmarks in the ESS.
So there should no hallucination.
Feel free to point them out so i can edit them.
So far you didn´t provide hallucination up.

I’d explain sarcasm to you, but I’m afraid we’d need to start with the basics of humor.
No worries, you will get it once the jokes expires :slight_smile:

So do we assumptions are the mother of all ■■■■ ups.

It is not my problem which CCP don´t gave you content hooks for your Gameplay.

As said raise this concern in your own thread.

ESS should not be used to rundown timers neither as Safe Space which.. if we don´t like what you bring we keep burning off until you get borred.

THERE IS NO CONTENT FOR YOU OUTSIDE OF THE ESS WHICH FORCE ANYBODY TO PLAY WITH YOU. :stuck_out_tongue:

Explain to me why i should engage you outside of the ESS GRID?
WHAT DOES FORCE THE DEFENDER TO DO SO?

I am waiting.

Nano Gangers complain about getting blobbed.
Imagine you a dropped behind enemie lines and complain there to many of them… xD

I strongly disagree.
On which kind of skill set to do you measure this like zkill, ISK, PLEX, SP?

Please tell me which which content outside of the ESS GRID FORCE ME TO DO PVP WITH YOU?

58

You don’t get to try to make an argument, and then when it’s destroyed, backpedal and retcon that it was a joke.

59

Fair enough. you are free to interpret it that way.

60

Did you want to have a debate or did you want to make jokes? You have to pick one or the entire thing is pointless

61

Your arguments are genuinely so poorly worded and thought out it is impossible to tell which ones are you being genuine, or genuinely stupid.

How is that relevant to anything? What does me forcing you to fight have to do with anything?

You literally made a thread to complain about nanogangers not wanting to fight your blob, the blatant solution is to put some effort into appearing engageable, but I don’t think you know how to do that.

I’m basing it on the fact you literally don’t know how to fly your own ship, and complain about stuff any groups resolved years ago.

:skull: what the ■■■■ are you talking about.

62

You sit outside the ESS waiting for a fight.
People don´t fight on your terms.
You get upset… and leave.
For whatever reason you come back and experience the exact same szenario sitting outside in the ESS and nobody comes.

No. I made a Thread which the Outside of the ESS getting abused as safe space.
Looking at the response.. i am hitting the nail really good otherwise there would be less trolling. :stuck_out_tongue:

Could you explain which one of the ships and also point out the szenario you reffering back.

That one is easy :stuck_out_tongue:
You sit XXXkm outside of the ESS.
Why should i burn a ship into you?
In which kind does it affect my gameplay of mining,ratting, hauling if you chill XXXkm on the outside of the ESS beside XX people baiting to catch you on gates or combat probe you down?

63

Did you just ask and then answer your own question?