Why must it be updated ESS?

I understand the need to update the DBS, but i cant understand why its necessary to update ESS, It takes three hours to payback from it , i understand this action can hit those bot ,But does CCP consider living players ? Those cant fight back hunters and watching others steal the money. I really cant understand this update, You can not let me play, but you can not disgust me.


Here is your issue. You can fight them back but you don’t want to. You want to krab risk free, you put some of your income at risk.

Also, if you claim that people can’t fight back. Go and steal their free money by yourself.


Hello Starfield and welcome to the community! :blush:

Of course they do. The whole point is that it’s affecting players.

Bots are just a smoke screen so people like yourself keep playing instead of mass-quitting …
… but iirc they didn’t even mention bots this time?

Well … still helps, apparently. :slight_smile:

If CCP wanted to tackle null botting they would, black out killed 95% of nul bots in one week. It just so happens 60%+ of null is bots so CCP got scared ended black out & fired Fozzie as 1/4 was down.

CCP were told first 1/4 would be carnage but the 2nd 1/4 would be upticking and by 3rd they been in black but they took the 1/4 loss & pulled out before the uptick, dumb.

Look at my post history I predicted all this prior to blackout.

The new system is a reward for at key players allowing non botters access to bot level of incomes. The new change is great as it allows specific ship pvp players income from pvp.

In blackout the bots moved from null to high & low in massive numbers, 10k in a week & some botters simply stopped loging in their bot accounts. The new ESS tax on bots is not so harsh so I predict the bots will stay in null & just pay the tax or the bot master will move from full automated to semi supervised. As always the major null blocks will have home defence for their bot empires.

Imho ccp should just end isk bounty & mission payment for npc kills and move to a full player driven economy via market that allready has buy orders up for npc ship salvage.

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In short:
Giving roamers a better motivation to roam, and giving ratters a better reason to fight


I’m with you on that one, this is indeed a vast change

But not this one
ISK got destroyed when player interact with NPC, so there must be somewhere that can generate ISK
How can player generate ISK by themselves?
they can’t, so CCP introduce bounties, i think that’s good enough
(In fact you can generate ISK “without” NPC, by Insurance and NPC buyback market, but i think that is still bounty-alike)

There is enormously gth currency, isk in the game. Most Fountains should be closed & only a small ammount left open to counter axt when isk leaves from inactivity & the sinks we have.

We do nt want magic isk injections from missions or insurance.

Easy solution for that one. Make it like WHs: Remove bounties. Add a drop which needs to be taken to HS get it exchanged there for isk.

This way bots can’t just warp out, because they didn’t get any value yet and will have to loot all wrecks to get it. More time spent on the field, more chance for people to kill them. If they warp out others can just take the drops and get the isk instead.

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In that case I assume you have never read the MER.
Small scale inflation is good for economy, deflation is not.
Even with the enormous 50T bounty generated monthly, total isk delta is merely +4 T
and now you are asking to shut down the 50T faucet, claiming that the 1300T active ISK is good enough.
If they really did what you said, we should expect no active ISK left within the next 30 months or so.
Go read MER, seriously, the pic i mentioned can be accessed Here.

By the way

Insurance generate net +3T last month, and so did mission, less than 20% than that of bounty.
This is why I criticized that you are disscussing EVE economics without even reading the MER for even once.


TL;DR for my opinion:
New ESS=

  • Low opportunity cost(no PVP timer required)
  • high reward
  • require extraction

Your solution=

  • Medium opportunity cost (may need to shoot or be shot at, PVP timer)
  • high reward
  • require extraction

Your solution is no better than status quo for roamers
roamers does not get motivated better

You are just claiming that turning bounty into NPC buyback market would solve the issue.
Yes, it hurt the ratters, but it doesn’t reward the roamers any better.

I’ve participated in anti-roaming a lot, in most cases roamers get some kills and get rekt by gate camps, unless they decide to filament out, which has a huge opportunity cost (you wait for timer to go away and you don’t do anything in that period).

New ESS rewards roamers, they don’t even need to harass the ratters, they can just smash grab and go away with no PVP timer on their head, which makes extraction(with filament)much easier.

So in short:

  • I don’t see that asking bounty to be turned into NPC buyback will motivate roamers any better
  • this just hurt ratters, and ratters bring MTU on grid, end of the story. (Unless you require them to salvage)

IMO, motivating more roamers makes nullsec more active, simply hurting ratters does not, so that idea is no better than current one.

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Most people can’t.

Not really , this patch has nothing to do with bots, and affect way more players than botsz if they have income reduced, botters will just increase numbers to catch up

Yeah also tons of null players unsub or changed activity, even migrating from null. not a surprise blackout was reverted so fast…

In the first weeks maybe, but not really. only roamers got reason to fight, ratters can’t fight against small gangs, and there is A LOT of casuals in null. In time ess will be empty as many ratters will just change activity.


@Starfield You still get most of the bounty payout directly, don’t you ? Plus you have the benefit that the payout can be higher than usual. Whether you also want the extra ESS cash is really up to you (or gank the ones wanting to rob the bank, by slipping into something more pvp-comfortable :laughing:). The need for an extra key for the main jackpot (reserve bank) is of course a bit meh. But I have to agree with you that a mandatory ESS in every system is not a sandbox gameplay idea, but more of a casino game with an ante.

I think that EVE is developed with “PVE may bring PVP” in mind.
If you want to rat, you need your place to rat, which means you need fleets for combat.
Ratters themselves not being able to put up a fight is not an issue, their fleet will.
If there’s no fleet that can protect the said ratter, how did he get the place to rat in the first place?


Waiting the fleets for explorers, haulers, traders, abyssals, mission runners, ETC . If the goal is to require a fleet to protect pve activities then good luck to roamers, players will just leave or change activity. Congrats , y approve the end of your own content.

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No. If I’m not mistaken , majority goes to the main bank, witch can be stolen, also 115% is for systems not ratted at all, those can drop to 30%. Given the time and losses trying to defend it or the 60% loss if not defending it even a 70% rate is not worth doing, and when the golden weeks of ess ends, and people realise it’s not worth it, guess what? People will just change activity.

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I don’t understand what are you talking about, can you elaborate?
Is there any problem on having a standing fleet to guard the ratters?
I’m talking about nullsec, just in case that you acknowledge.
And if you need me to explain why explorers does not need protection, i can do it, but please explain to me what’s your point.

Yes you are mistaken, 70% is passed to you as usual, only 30% of what you used to get every tick goes into main bank, go read the devblog and patch notes

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The point is that null sec have MANY casual players even if they are in a big group. casual players won’t bother or have the time to defend an ess for 3 hours to not have 60% of their income stolen. if they fight, lets say in a fleet , they STILL are not ratting or doing anything they LIKE to do. Their income is nerfed, their commitment to the game is forced to change, and their playstyle is FORCED to change. a good example to make it easier to you to understand: you go to a restaurant willing to eat a steak. Then they tell you they only have fish, and you eat fish, it’s ok, y eat it when necessary, bit what y like really is steak. what y do? eat fish or go to the restaurant next door that has fish?

Hope you get the example, and understand once and for all that a lot of ppl will just just leave null or change activity. And you sir, will be without clients in your restaurant.

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Got it now, was a bit confused about whether you are referring to roamers or ratters in terms of leaving.
Yes, this is indeed a problem, ratters do lose significant income, my alliance seems to be working for a solution for the moment.
But regarding to the “if they fight” portion, I’d like to clarify, we have a response fleet standing in our timezone, and they will do the fighting for ratters, ratters themselves do not take part in the fight.
And yes, in case you may ask, some ratters are also engaged in PVP, ratting is just a method of gaining income and leisure for them.
Sorry for the confusion, I thought you meant roamers will leave,
(that’s honestly a good thing, at least for local ratters)

Just let Ike me sir

Yeah it’s a good solution, but CCP fails to know their own playerbase and their psychology. many corps don’t have such fleets , and even those that run such thing, it’s not 24/7.

Also I never fired a srp request to my losses before, but now I’ll be forced to.

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That’s more of a “big blob good, small blob weak” problem
This problem ( monopoly leads to strength→even more monopoly),
along with the speed creep ( much like power creep, but now by ships flying around with MWD) is currently one of the major problems in the game right now, and honestly I think they alone deserve another thread.
Interested in that? I’d open one maybe tomorrow if you’re interested.
We can also talk about standing fleet issue more deeply