# Question regarding ship agility

(Donnie Wilhelm) #1

So Im trying to understand how agility works. Im aware that 1.99 sec align time before warp is same as 1.70 sec but does the same concept apply in actual maneuverability of the ship in combat? Would 1.70 sec allow my ship to turn and accelerate faster than 1.99 sec and if it would, is there a way to calculate the statistics? (how much faster it would accelerate and turn)

(Makshima Shogo) #2

1.7 means you align faster than 1.99, but 1.99 has to do with server ticks and how modules activate, so in terms of someone trying to lock you before you warp off its the same they wont catch you, but in terms of agility its still faster to have 1.7

(Memphis Baas) #3

The server â€śticksâ€ť or processes everyoneâ€™s commands in 1-second intervals.
The internet adds approx. 0.5 seconds of lag each way (to Iceland and from Iceland).
To make the game feel responsive, your EVE client acts as if everything happens right away.

Server Ticks Explained. Read that, it explains what happens in situations where your (and your enemies) ship stats are close to the duration of the server tick.

(Donnie Wilhelm) #4

Is there a way to tell how much faster?
Or the acceleration itself.
Any idea if there is like a mathematical formula to calculate these thing?
Im talking about piloting the ship during combat, warping times and server ticks are pretty simple.

(Memphis Baas) #5

1.99 / 1.7 = 1.17 = 17% faster.

(Donnie Wilhelm) #6

Ok im not sure if Im getting it correctâ€¦
With 1.7 when I click in space by the 3rd tick after i clicked:
my ship will accelerate to 75% + the acceleration it would gain in 0.3
and will not just accelerate to 75% and wait for the tick.
And lets say i have 1.7 is there a way to calculate how far my ship would travel within 2 ticks and what would its speed be then, Or w/e amount of ticks (considering that I know the max velocity of it)
Its just that ship acceleration is not constant and the faster it goes the slower it accelerates so its hard to measure with percentage.

(Makshima Shogo) #7

your ship needs 75% speed before warp and you warp after 1.7 seconds so 1.7/75 = x/100 x = (1.7 x 100) / 75 x = 2.26 seconds to reach full speed. Amusing you accelerate at a constant speed (which its not but the avg should still be good) your distance traveled will be half your max speed during 2.26 seconds + max speed afterwards for how ever long your still traveling before changing direction. if you only want to know how far during align and warp then its half of 75% so 37.5m p/s x 1.7 seconds. Iâ€™m guessing thou not 100% proven.

The big question is why would you need to know all this?

(Donnie Wilhelm) #8

Learning pvp, so Im looking for the exact equation by which its calculated.

(Boldly Gone) #9

Hmm, my experience is you have no time for equations in battleâ€¦ But OK, in fitting it helps a bit.
Donâ€™t be disappointed if your â€śexact equationsâ€ť are disturbed by too many unknown values like modules, rigs, skills and implants of the opponent. And even if all this works, that â€śtick dilationâ€ť really is a problem if you have subsecond values which depend on the position of your command within the tick timespan.
Sometimes Iâ€™d even fancy some more random values in EvE

(Wander Prian) #10

The server is in London, not in Iceland.

(Makshima Shogo) #11

Yea Boldly is right no time for it, what does help is when your trying to calculate maximum angular velocity to increase your tank against multiple targets but thatâ€™s more logic than maths and just finding the most extreme avg of right angle between all targets, canâ€™t really think where else it would be needed thou.

Actually there are some really nice damage calculations somewhere showing how sig effects things ill try find it but its been awhile.

Damage Calc:
bomb damage = base damage * MIN(1, target sig/expl. radius)
https://www.bellum-totalis.com/game/EVE-Online:Formulae

Ship motion:

(mkint) #12

I donâ€™t do math, especially complicated acceleration curve math, but I can clarify why certain concepts are used.

Align time is the time to enter warp from stationary, and a common method to compare agility. This is because it can compare literally every ship in the game to any other ship with a real application communicated with 1 easy number. Align time is derived from what I call effective mass (mass X agility modifier.) A lower effective mass has a faster align time, so a lower agility modifier is also more agile. However, because of extreme variations even within the same class, neither mass nor agility modifier alone are useful for comparing one ship to another, they have to be multiplied. Align time is the time to accelerate from 0m/s to 75% of max on a given vector. If you are already moving in a different direction, you will have to decelerate along the original vector, which also is based on effective mass but is a distinctly different action from acceleration. So, while you are moving, your align time will be far different from when stationary.

In the case of an orbit as the orbit gets closer to the target, a high velocity and low agility will mean the acceleration and deceleration canâ€™t keep up with velocity and youâ€™ll end up with erratic elliptical orbits making you vulnerable to guns. To sustain a close orbit, youâ€™ll need to either reduce velocity (turn off a prop mod) or increase agility (fit agility mods).

In the case of other combat maneuvers the importance of agility becomes more obvious as you learn to perform them.

Specifically to your questions: no, 1.99 is not the same as 1.7. 1.7 is more agile. They might have more or less the same risks when warping from gate to gate, but combat engagements tend to last longer than 2 seconds, making the differences matter far more. Because of the variations of the initial conditions, applying numbers to how much more agile is impossible. If you are going full speed with a MWD and want to make a 90degree turn, that will be a different align time than if you want to do a 180 without MWD. A basic applicable test you can do is pick a stationary object, orbit it within point range, and see the fastest speed you can maintain a stable orbit with both loadouts. Faster will have better survivability.

(Fluffy Moe) #13

It does come into play in manuvering in combat, its actually very important to sig and transversal tanking.

I will give you a good example of it for you to experiment with in the game and see its effects try the following:

1. Make a T1 frigate fit for security missions (lvl 1 or 2 missions), using an afterburner and long range weapons for your respective faction. Make sure your fit is stable when the afterburner and weapons are running, the tank does not need to be stable, only give you some armor or shield back when needed then you can shut it off. You can even use anciliary shield booster or armor rep or a cap battery + recharger or rigs for it if cap is a problem.

2. Take your frig to a mission area or equivalent and activate your afterburner, keep it permamently on and orbit your target at 25+ km while shooting that target. During this time watch your transversals in your overview (might need enable it if you donâ€™t have it), and watch your ship speed as it orbits. Watch and take note of how much damage you are taking, how much actually hits you. Do this for few targets.

3. Switch orbit to 15km and watch the same things, your ship speed, your transversals, how much damage you take and deal at what ship speed / transversals.

4. Switch orbit to 10 km, watch the same, then switch it to 5km, watch the same, then 2500, watch the same, etc. You get the idea. Just take mental notes of sorts.

Then switch your fit a bit, equip between 2-4 inertia stabilizers (use teh D-types or T2) and possibly the T1 ship agility rig, depending on your trained skills and comfort zone, and do the same as above and watch the difference, in particular, pay very detailed attention once you reach orbits below 10km, and note the difference in speeds, transversals, how much damage you take and dish out.

Going further, you can stop auto orbiting and start doing it manually. At first it will be a bit random, but then you will notice that you can actually achieve a desired transversal, and ceirtain movements will increase the damage you take and do, as well as reduce the damage you can do or take.

Furthermore, you can now swap to MWD and watch the same differences, but now you will have to throw in cap management into the mix and keep in mind that MWD when in use blows up your signature radius a ton, thus making you easier to hit negating the low sig part of your tank and relying on transversals only.

Then, to add to that, train up thermodynamics, and start using overheating. You want to overheat your weapons when you have low transversal to your target and turn it off when you have high to optimize your damage application, and overheat your tank when you have high transversal and then turn it off to optimize your regen.

This is very useful for the remainder of the entire game, both in PvE as well as PvP. Beware however that if you get webbed, youâ€™re kinda screwed. But once you reach a ceirtain point, and your frig moves at 3500+ with an AB for example, even if you get webbed for 80% speed you will still be able to function and do all right. But that is way off as you wonâ€™t be able to fly those sort of fits in combat until you get a lot of level 5 skills etc.

I do highly recommend this sort of experimentation.

(Teckos Pech) #14

Errrâ€¦I believe that is actually 17% slower.

1.99 > 1.7
=> 1.99/1.7 > 1,
in fact, 1.99/1.7 = 1.17 or 1.99 is 117% of 1.7.

1.7/1.99 = 0.854 or
1.7/1.99 - 1 = -0.146 or 14.6% faster.

(Mr Lopez) #15

Doesnâ€™t the server round ticks tho? It only counts things in 1 second increments. From what I understood fraction of the second are just rounded up. Im prolly wrong thoâ€¦ If this si so then the 1.99 to 1.7 has a negligle effect if any at all. As both will be rounded to 2 seconds.

(Makshima Shogo) #16

It depends if 1.7 is a time or a part of an equation, as part of an equation such as agility and change in momentum it makes a big difference but for warping out or locking your target its rounded, but things like shield rep rates if you try get it to .4 to try shave off time increasing your rep amount would normally mean you would burn more cap and not be cap stable anymore but I have never found this Itâ€™s worth testing thou.

(system) #17

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