I recently experimented with fittings for two somewhat similar ships, the Vagabond (Minmatar Heavy Assault Cruiser) and its bigger, slower brother the Sleipnir (Minmatar Command Ship).
After becoming frustrated by not being able to fit the Sleipnir the way I wanted, I did the following experiment: I fitted only the exact same 4 modules on both ships - 10MN Afterburner II, Pith C-type Large Shield Booster, Adaptive Invulnerability field II, Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery. All other slots, Rigs and implants were empty.
What I discovered is that despite having a larger, more powerful capacitor, the Sleipnir was not cap stable, while the smaller Vagabond was cap stable. Now in real life, I know that a larger, more powerful powerplant would have no trouble running devices which were easily managed by a smaller one, so could someone please explain to me why this is the case in the EVE universe?
No. Stop this. This is so incredibly dumb. Donât try to bring âreal lifeâ into EVE Online.
Itâs something called âBalanceâ. Welcome to video games?
Why should Vagabonds and Sleipnirs both be made to be equally cap stable with the exact same fit? Youâre making the (horrifically mistaken) assumption that the Slep the same as a Vagabond, just âbiggerâ. Thatâs not how these ships work, and expecting them to work that was is incredibly silly.
Correction, Iâm comparing the in-game capacitor of the Sleipnir, which is 3281 GJ, to the in-game capacitor of the Vagabond, which is 1500 GJ . That doesnât seem like an assumption.
My question is why the larger capacitor has trouble running the same modules. This has nothing to do with real life, and I regret every mentioning those words which apparently diverted you far off course from my question.
Now compare ship volumes
What does that mean?
Because EVE Online has 2 variables for Capacitor.
Total Capacitor pool, and Total Capacitor Recharge time.
Together, those will provide capacitor recharge rates.
HACs generally have a higher capacitor recharge rate due to their base stats. A Command Ship like a Sleip, however, does not, because their strength relies on having a heavier tank than Heavy Assault Cruisers.
I hope you remember this when posting on this forums for the foreseeable future.
Thank you. That gets to the core of my question.
What is total capacitor recharge time derived from?
Larger ships surely also take more power to keep life supoort running etc.
If you want to bring logic into things.
I donât. I just want to be better at fitting.
Because of the way cap recharge works, a cap battery of a particular size is more powerful for cap regen on smaller capacitor than it is a large one.
Do a quick Google on how capacitor (and shield) recharge works in eve.
Edit- nvm beat me to it.
Itâs set by ccp when they design/rebalance the ship but is boosted by mods that increase cap recharge likeâŚcap rechargers lol
Then try an angel cartel shield booster on a minmatar boat instead of a dread guristas shield booster on a minmatar boat.
Dread Guristas shield booster need way more capacitor than angel cartel ones.
it is a base stat of the ship, affected by respective skills and modules. It is generally used in pair with âcapacitor capacityâ to calculate ârecharge rateâ - the stat that is further used to define âcap stabilityâ on any given hull.
can be considered an OP module on cruiser-sized hulls:
- cruisers have decent amount of PG available to them and they can easily fit one or two of these
- cruisersâ base capacitor capacity and recharge time are way lower compared to larger hulls (base recharge rate can be roughly the same)
- it gives a huge boost to capacity (and faction one to boot with larger bonuses and easier fittings) without any penalty to recharge time. That is why its effect on recharge recharge rate on cruisers is way higher compared to BCs.
Larger CAP doesnât always make for a more stable ship.
Itâs only really beneficial in short engagements, as once its gone you have to wait for it the recharge.
Ideally you use a mix of modules to provide a better recharge and battery increase just enough to help maintain CAP when needed.
But a large CAP with no improvements to recharge is useless in EWAR fights as itâll run out of CAP and never gain it back until the fight is over.
You might want to think about what youâre using these ships for and how long you need CAP for.
As others have said, there are two critical figures:
The size of the capacitor - the amount of energy it contains, and
The rate it recharges - this is normally given as âsecondsâ, how much time it takes to refill the capacitor if nothing is drawing on it.
Both are improved/modified by skills, modules and rigs.
The Vagabond has a smaller but faster recharging capacitor - it can withstanding more demand on it than the larger much slower recharging capacitor in the Command Ship. Makes sense since a HAC is going to be actively trading blows, manoeuvring quickly and living a high energy existence - much more than a Command Ship that is intended for a much more support focused role that doesnât have as greater capacitor need.
The Sleipnir may have twice the capacitor but itâs more that twice the recharge time - in terms of sustainable GJ/sec itâs thus less than the Vagabond
How you fit each depends on the role you have for it. But a few thoughts.
Rate is âto fill the capacitorâ adding size thus increases the recharge rate. That large battery is doubling the capacitor size of a HAC which doubles the GJ/sec that can drawn from it. Itâs only adding 50% or so to the Command Ship and only thus increasing the already worse GJ/sec by that proportion.
Smaller batteries in big hulls are normally not worth it, the Cap Rechargers give you a better chance of stability since they are a percentage improvement.
Cap Boosters have a role, a quick slug of power to give you chance to act when the capacitor is under high demand can be extremely useful, but for long missions itâs not a good route to stability.
Capacitor rigs are percent based, so for big capacitors they can provide quite a bonus.
Recharge rate mods stack, play with it but mixing capacitor size modules with recharge modules may help a bit. Or not.
Passive shield recharge rate is often improved at the cost of capacitor performance.
MWDs have a capacitor penalty in the small print.
Stability is over rated, even mission running. You wonât need everything running at once, learning to manage demand is as important as learning how to manage incoming damage. In combat against another Capsuleer stability isnât needed - if the battle only lasts two minutes then why waste space on needless capacitor?
Most combat pilots will carry a Neutralizer in a spare high power slot. Being on the recieving end isnât nice. Fortunately they are short range (though some Amarrian ships have nice cap.warfare range bonuses).
I normally fly Amarrian ships. Forget the Vagabond, I first flew Sacrileges. A dual rep, large battery MWD HAM Sac. is a lot of fun and almost stable (more stable than the pilot!)
In general Amarrian ships have better capacitors, but they are normally needed for powering energy turrets.
Correct answer: who cares? Both are eating cap 800s as fast as the booster can cycle, passive regen is only a small part of your total cap regen. And once you understand that you see how the Sleipnirâs larger cap pool gives it a much better buffer to keep everything running longer even when demand exceeds what the booster can provide.
OP was talking about passive regen using cap batteries, not cap boosters.
But yes, everything you said is correct.
Yes, but thatâs the point. Theyâre looking at an irrelevant stat that has very little to do with how the ship performs.
Except that on cruisers (at least some of them) itâs not irrelevant; large cap batteries can provide enough cap to run everything you need without the need for cap booster charges in the cargo hold. Battlecruisers and battleshipsâŚnot so much. I think the OP is mainly lamenting the fact that you canât do cruiser-sized tricks on battlecruiser-sized platforms, but being able to do so would be OP as heck, so itâs probably good game balance.
Iâm not weighing in on whether this is a wise fitting choice or not, but cap stable Vagas and Sacs fitted with large cap batteries arenât popular for nothingâŚ
You are completely wrong.
The capacitor is not a power plant. Itâs a capacitor, that is more like ⌠well the capacitors, chemical batteries, inertial wheel, PSH that you use to be sure you have a usable power available.
Your capacitor is wired to an infinite-energy source (I think itâs the PEG ?) . However, having infinite energy sources and using infinite energy source are two very different things. The laws of thermodynamics say that you canât move energy (or use energy) without generating heat : work( that is, oriented energy transfer) is only a by-product of entropy increase(that is, heat spreading). (IRL that means that usable energy is only a by-product of pollution.) You can not generated an infinite amount of work, without having an infinite amount of heat.
Now, we know that a ship contains another source of energy that allows it to keep working even at 0 cap energy. This source of energy is also used to bootstrap the capacitor : you need energy to bring energy from the PEG to the cap. So the more energy in the cap, the more power you can extract from the PEG. However, since there are issues of dissipation, the maximum charge rate of the capacitor is also limited.
Also, the more charged a capacitor is, the more tension you need to charge it, therefore the slower it becomes charged. Typically, once you reach the maximum charge rate of the capacitor, the charge rate can only decrease. Thatâs why you have a peak at 25% .
So, CCP decided that it was faster to compute the charge rate, from simple numbers : the charge of the capacitor, the max charge of the capacitor, and the recharge time. This is a simplification of how real capacitors works ; this is correct, up to the point where modules ig can only impact the time to charge the capacitor, or the max charge, and thus have an impact on the cap stability of the ship.
In reality, each cap battery should provide a fixed increase in capacity, and max power (peak power). In the game, since the max power is deduced from the capacity and the recharge time ( peak = capacity * 2.5 / recharge_time), this makes no sense at all.
To fix this, CCP should
- replace the recharge_time attribute with a peak_capacity for each ship,
- make modules, skills, rigs, implants, boosters that decrease the recharge_time, increase peak_capacity instead
- make modules and rig that add a flat cap also increase the peak recharge by a flat value.
Then, do the same for shields.
So much â â â â â â â â .
The answer is simple, its a game and the ships are all designed to be slightly different in splite of the idiotic one size fits all mentality that care bears who just want to achieve âend gameâ have.
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