Rebel Miners - 3 Orcas versus a Carrier

I’ve had this theorycraft now for days, and started going back to old articles about “Battle Orcas” or Combat Orca builds, and I’ve been playing with this tactical idea. I like to call it the “Rebel Miner” because the idea is that if your corp has a lot of miners, how do you get them to contribute to fleet operations?

In fact, beyond just getting miners to contribute to the fight, Orca’s are insanely easy to skill into for the versatility they offer.

An Orca pilot SEEMS to instantly gain a freighter, a weak carrier, a command ship, a fleet logi ship and a mothership, ALL IN ONE PACKAGE.

The freighter can carry up to 140,000m3 (not including ore hold), while still keeping about 300k EHP.

For a “Killer Whale” (combat Orca)…

A fully fitted T1 Orca MIGHT look something like this, and would take only about 16 days to train into(?)

But I don’t think there will ever be a “White Whale”. But the idea of a killer whale in a pack makes a lot of sense.

3 Orca pilots still only took about 2 months to train (collectively). While one carrier pilot, just to fly the hull, takes 6months to train.

So if your Corp is substantially out-gunned, and full of industrialists/miners, it only makes sense to convert your Orcas into weapons of war: TO SUPPORT THE REST OF YOUR FLEET.

So tactics is key.

I think a triangle of Orcas (3 Orcas) should be a baseline for fleet support.

And this is where things can get interesting if the game mechanics allow?

If you can fit while targeted/under-fire, from even a mobile depot (if solo) or from other Orcas (fleet hangars and ship bays?)

Then your whole Orca fit can be swapped out for a new one when you need certain functions!

This fit has a self-heal on Shields of about ~560hp. So tactically, if it is the primary target, then the other 2 can cap boost and remote boost it, while it refits and enters a self heal mode?

And 3 Orcas would deal ~475dps x 3…or an equivalent similar to a carrier, minus the range, and the other goodies.

So the question comes down to, does a pod of 3 Orcas bring the firepower and tankability of one carrier? Along with 9 total command modules, 3 ship bays, and fitting services for your entire fleet?

All for the low low price of 3Billion in total (1bil each), and ~16 days of skill points.

What could go wrong? :wink:

If you’re really hard pressed for qualified pilots because your corp is so miner/industry heavy. Add Battle-Procurers and Web/Scram Procs to your fleet. Their tank is descent and the ship is cheaper than dirt and can get close to 200dps.

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carriers like 3000 dps… and about 2bil isk or less.
a carrier hull is only around 850-950mil

Whats the ehp of a battle orca? 600k? even a nid is like 1.6mil EHP, fighters move faster than drones

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I think you missed a part…it’s like 6months of solid Skill Points.

And this thread Specifically says the difference between the choice is the Skills.

Also you greatly over estimated the dps of a carrier.

And you ignored that a carrier’s fighters can be killed, greatly reducing its dps.

And that a carrier cannot house nearly as many fighters as Orcas can drones.

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3 Orcas would have a combined EHP of 1,800,000 in your scenario.

And would spider tank/active rep.

See the tactics section.

Can a single carrier spider tank and switch its own fits to max-out active tanking? (Probably yes on the latter with a mobile depot?)

Moot point.

A carrier itself would not come into range of a pod of Orcas. (unless the pilot really messed up some how)

Rather the Orcas would just murder the Carrier’s drones. (Or die trying).

But that’s where this discussion has to be…it’s a more realistic scenario than simply the numbers themselves suggest.

no you underestimate it, even without rocket salvo or whatever the dps is like 1600.

people don’t use orcas to pvp with in fleets for a reason they pop stupidly fast. you might as well take a cruiser that does way more dmg then an orca and you can smart bomb drones a lot easier than you can fighters.

carrier doesn’t need to spider tank the fleet will have FAX, theres never going to be a scenario where someone takes a carrier vs 3 orca, but the carrier would probably win anyway easily. go try it on the test server, the orcas probably cant even kill a carrier alone.

the carrier will just smart bomb the drones and buffer tank the orcas


Just post the fit, I’m not going to rebuild a whole carrier from scratch right now to settle on a dps figure.

The Thanatos empty hull with full T2 fighters costs 1.8 Billion to buy and does 1,000dps


3 pilots can train into Orcas in 16 days total. SO everyone can fly them.

And the entire T1 fit is 1billion.

Again they have the pack-advantages I mentioned.

And While a Carrier can have 70 light fighters.

One Orca can hold 1,000s of drones.

So the Orca will outlast the gunnery of the Carrier as they attrition each other’s drones.

Can the carrier break the tank of a spider-tanking // fit-switching pod of Orcas?

That’s where the answer lies.

I’m enjoying our conversation though. But have to head off for now.

I want to leave you with the point that the war-game has several critera, but killing the carrier is not one of them.

Defang the carrier, and the Orcas win.

Survive the dps of the carrier, and the Orcas win.

So the question is can the 3 Orcas tank the Carrier’s dps, and defang the carrier?

If so, then they have achieved the objective (supremacy of the battlefield).

Can you work toward answering that war-game question?

More interesting would be to watch how many rookie corvettes it takes to kill Carrier.


We must theorize (wargame) this scenario to compare advantages // disadvantages of bringing either to the fleet.

I would say this. Last thought.

If you have 10 carrier pilots, bring 10 carriers. If you have 100 miners, bring 100 more Orcas to support the fleet in ADDITION to the 10 carriers.

I think you will see, with some thinking about the challenges, that 3 Orcas would defang a carrier, provide fleet-services, and support each other or the whole fleet very well.

All for a very cheap (easy skill point) level of training.

how does a thanatos do 1000dps? when you have absolutely no skills at all or what.

I have bad skills, I’m only 27mil SP. in a nid standard buffer tank fleet fit I’m 2364.5 dps of which 1416.3 is fighter auto attack. heavy rocket salvo 921.9dps and thats tech 1 fighters.

somethings wrong with your maths. I know tech2 thanatos hit 3kdps

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Oh, no…this is a final thought…hah.

You can’t say Orcas pop fast, when they can get 300-400,000+ EHP and decent resists.

When the freaking rest of your fleet has BS’s at 100k, or frigates at 3000hp…

Everything “pops” really fast if they are hammered by an entire fleet.

I would have to say that if it’s skills based, then the dps of Orca and Carrier will rise proportionally.

If my skills give them a base of 400dps and 1000 dps respectively, then if your skills turns that carrier’s base into 2,364.5dps…we can expect the Orca to top out a bit higher as well?

You may be right about T2 thanatos.

But I’m also comparing T1 to an empty hull…because T1 is the easiest to train into…and the crux of the thread is this is a “poor-man’s fit”.

Hence the “Rebel Miner” title :smile:

Because I think there’s a big advantage to getting everyone involved to come to the fight…not just your carrier pilots.

As Patton once said, even the cooks are fighting.

I will reiterate because I’d like to see real productive results from this.

I think the Orca is an easy-fit, most anyone can train to it quickly, highly versatile, brings additional support to your fleet, and isn’t useless in that regard.

I think a whole bunch of Orcas can do a lot of damage, and support, at the same time.

[quote=“Alistair_Atreides, post:12, topic:204888”]
If my skills give them a base of 400dps and 1000 dps respectively, then if your skills turns that carrier’s base into 2,364.5dps…we can expect the Orca to top out a bit higher as well?
[/quote]In an orca I think i’m around 632dps vs 2400in a nid.

I used to do emerging conduits in a battlefit orca :slight_smile:

Battlefit orca probably costs around 900million, battlefit carrier is around 1.6-1.8billion.
it’s probably less than 2 months extra training time over an orca.

No no, it’s definitely not “2months” extra. That much I have worked out…

As I said, JUST the HULL for a Carrier is like 4.5 months.

I want to hear more though.

As for tghe DPS, so 3 Orcas could bring about 1896dps…

I think that should be enough to defang a carrier and survive?

Things to consider, Capcitor use…and I think the highs need some reservations for remote sensor boosting on the Orcas?

if you fly an orca you will have a lot of the reqs for a carrier already.
unless your flying your orca with no drone skills

okay I just checked the stats in game.
orca is worse than I remember.

only 450dps (t2 medium drones)
only 200 drone space, only 50mb/s drone thingy so you’r pretty much limited to using medium drones.
carrier has huge fighter space with my skills which aren’t maxed I can carry around 70 spare fighters,
Your better of flying spider tank dominix than orcas for sure
Use sentry drones so the carrier can’t smart bomb the drones.

Orca clearly has no place on a battlefield


Let’s file this one in the drawer along with the “skank trap” and the “wrecking ballqual”.

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Came here expecting a cool video…

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