I feel my last thread got ruined because people focused on the wrong point.
All I want to know is does it make sense to spend a relatively cheap 16 days of training to fly an Orca?
Because it appears Orcas have a LOT to add to fleets, especially cheaper fleets with less skilled pilots?
It seems there are a number of advantages Orcas can provide, especially if they support each other to boost their capacitor stability and shield reps?
While still providing fleets with ship hangars and ok drone damage (apparently up to 500+dps?)
It just seems that the many pilots who dont have very good specific skills to fly more role-specific fits should just go 16 days training and bring an Orca to their fleet?
Your last thread got ruined because you focused on the wrong point (Orca vs Carrier) in the OP.
Your current thread isnât getting off to a much better start.
Of course it does - assuming you want to mine or fly a mini-freighter around in high sec. But what you are actually trying ask is âCan Orcas be used to make a combat fleet more powerful?â
This is loaded down with too many if, ands and maybes - as was your other thread. If you are going to suppose a low-SP char who only wants to train into one ship to conduct some mining, and that person then wants to assist in some sort of fleet combat op, and maybe if that fleet doesnât have better options to bring - then sure, an Orca can add some utility to the fleet.
Is it the best, or even second or third best ship that a person with that level of training could bring? Probably not.
How can you know itâs not that great an option? Because Orcas have been around for a long time, and people have had fleets of them for a long time, and there are a lot of people who train into Orcas, and there are a lot of corps who run fleets who have Orca-trained pilots.
Thus, if Orca-combat-fleets was a useful thing, it would already be a thing. It is not, and so you are left with the conclusion âEither tens of thousands of Orca pilots have completely missed out on this idea I am trying to pushâ (which is possible, though unlikely), or âOrcas make a good mining ship and a workable hauler, they make good support for a mining fleet, and they are usable in odd niches like running Emerging Conduits because of their high EHP and drone bays. But there are much better ships for fleet combat ops.â
It can haul more volume-wise than most T1 industrials with more inherent tank
It can easily be fit to perform the MWD-warp trick with very little compromise (making travel relatively fast)
It rivals Deep Space Transports in terms of tank-to-capacity ratio (though, DSTs are better in that they have higher survivability through tank and sig radius)
It can be a Command Ship
It can hold âspareâ ships
It can hold a large amount of ore in addition to other things
It has SOME combat capability
The Orca is basically a âjack of all trades, master of noneâ kind of deal.
It does a lot of things pretty well, but nothing in a truly outstanding way (besides mining command bonuses).
I personally used one as a âmobile baseâ around high-sec and it did its job well.
When mining with fellow peeps, it showed its use by swatting away most NPCs and being able to hold a combat-cruiser (so one person in the mining fleet could swap and deal with tougher NPCs).
A group of Orcas is nothing to sniff at⌠but then again, anything in sufficient numbers is deadly.
Training up for an Orca will be useful. Just keep in mind that it wonât be the best at any one thing and you will be fine.
16 days of training with no implants/boosters/remaps gives you just under 700k SP
It takes over 820k SP just to sit in an orca, with no associated skills towards tank/drones
Even if you add in the 1m free SP for new players, that means you only have about 780k SP to work with for a â16 dayâ old account.
Drones 5 alone takes away about 250k of that free SP, dragging it down to 530k SP
Hull upgrades 4 for your T2 DCU costs about 80k free SP, dragging it down to 450k SP
Now if you wanted your orca to be max dps fit, you can get a couple of levels of the industrial command ship skill, medium drone op 4, drone interfacing 3, weapon upgrades 4 (for a DDA) and you get a staggering dps with T1 drones of 313 and just under 285k ehp
If you went the more sensible route and got a nice and tanky fit, by getting mechanics 5 + medium drone op 4 + a couple of levels of the industrial command ship skill, you get 340k ehp and 260 dps
Either way, you have the dps of a wet noodle and your tank is about that of 2 T1 battleships
Just for comparison, a standard caracal fit has about 300 dps and 30k ehp with level 4 skills, meaning it takes 0 days to train given the free 1m SP thatâs handed out
Literally 5 alpha caracals can kill your â16 dayâ orca on day 0
Your threads are really hit or miss. But in any case, Orcas are good for mining. They can be fun to pvp in because you can link the killmails for the lolz, but itâs probably not a good idea. Then again, the lolz are really important. Thatâs for you to decide.
16 days to sit in a certain ship isnât much. But to fly the ship effectively youâll need more than the bare minimum. So no, it doesnât make sense to train 16 days towards training to fly an Orca, unless you continue training the skills that will help you fly that Orca before you undock.
Actually, it is. You bring out the a-hole in all of us!
I think youâll find, for any given fleet, that pilot who doesnât have very good specific skills would be of more benefit to the fleet if they spent that 16 days training something specific, like logi, ewar, guns, missiles, drones⌠unless the fleet is going mining (maybe).
I donât think this can be stressed enough. 16 days might get you in the ship, but to do all the other things in a useful capacity, like command boosts, remote reps or cap, drones with decent HP/range/dmg (heck even being able to lock up your fleet mates (>1) in a reasonable time to be able to provide remote reps/etc) all require additional training.
So if you were coming from the other direction, i.e. a pilot well skilled in command boosts, logi or drone ships, and you wanted to help out your corp with mining ops, then sure, take the 16 days & train into an orca, but an orca isnât the place to start (imo).
The problem is that you think you know a lot and, worse, you proclaim you know a lot. But when reality hits and people react/reply explaining and stating how wrong you are, you canât handle it.
Itâs the gift that keeps on giving even though weâd rather much wished it wouldnât.
I like that you come up with your own ideas and ask the kind of questions that I went through as well when I started playing, but the whole âIâm the best at this / I know what Iâm doingâ attitude that goes with it will trigger a lot of people to show you how and why youâre wrong.
If it is your intention to get a lot of quick feedback to your ideas, itâs a good idea to keep up that attitude. But from your reactions it seems you donât really like the the kind of feedback that tells you âyour idea is badâ, even though the feedback may contain useful information.
I donât expect that you will switch your attitude when approaching the forum with new questions. But I would advice you to be a bit more open for the feedback that you are asking for. It can be useful!
Sure they can add a lot. However you have the common EVE fallacy that it is only a 16 day difference. Getting into the hull is a far cry from making an orca a useful addition to a fleet.
You need t2 burst max skills, max ore industrial skills, and max cybernetics, to have the full value of bursts.
so it can add, but it really needs a lot of SP to be worth it. Also a porpoise will do sensibly the same, with much less isk-wise.
An orca is bonused for shield and mining bursts, so you rather have eg a command dessy for the other bursts (they all help)
An orca allows you to refit or change ships on the grid, which is a nice thing if its bay is loaded with T1 frigs ^^ . Still not enough volume to store more than 2 barges so âŚ
An orca canât be an efficient logi. Thatâs because, its sensor str is so low it takes 2 years to lock anything smaller than a sun. You need to prelock everything. And even with 11 targets itâs not enough. Still, going ancil RR in the highs is a good thing, but not as good as a real logibro.
An orca needs a mwd to align in a decent amount of time. or just to move in the space. Otherwise itâs like, 30s to align ? You have enough time to commit suicide meanwhile. I mean, IRL, because thatâs what it actually feels like. Yeah, most of the gameplay in eve revolves around waiting, #fun. (irony, just my opinion, donât take it too seriously)
An orca is invaluable for boosting mining yield in HS.
In LS/NS itâs a sitting cuck, a no-go, a WTFAREYOUANIDIOT ship. Literally, I was in mining fleets and people got screamed at because they brought an orca. In null. In space controlled by us, with 30 ppl able to defend the mining operation (I was in a sabre). He did not lose it, but I was surprised we got no bombers run just to destroy it.
