Just looking at all the losses of Capital ships, super caps and the such lately. I am wondering if this is how CCP has envisioned the game would go. It would seem roaming bands of redeemer fleets can respond on average in 10 min anywhere in eve space to the presence of a capital ship being in space. It’s getting really bad, maybe its the October season but its just the speed in which they respond that is concerning. Moving 20 or more redeemers that quickly and that they can be active 24 hours a day. Often times these ships are just being controlled by a single player, what is the point? Maybe the new expansion upends this I don’t know. But the game is becoming very boring watching those who can afford 20 accounts and 20 redeemers dominate.
1 Like
In a carrier game of rock, paper, scissors - lava (Redeemer) wins. Not having a dog in this fight, strictly from the standpoint of an outside observer - one has to ask: What’s even the point of undocking a carrier these days? All risk - almost no reward (ISK).
1 Like
Game for credit card warriors. Normal players no chance to play, only die. That is why I only fly free ships with free modules. 
I honestly think it’s time for Redeemer nerfs, and maybe some nerfs to the mobility of fleets of black ops battleships in general.
With their
role bonus these battleships ignore most of the limitations of jump fatigue, and with the outstanding defensive and offensive capabilities of the Redeemer in particular it’s hard to fight back, especially when a larger local force can just summon in a Fax with a Redeemer’s cyno to keep them all alive in case things do go wrong.
Skillfarms.
Don’t need a Credit card in eve.
oops, accidentally deleted my post instead of editing it.
they’re either using wormholes to get around, staging out of Thera or they have pre-staged caches of 'deemers and jump clones in likely target areas.
it’s not hard. it just requires some thought and effort.
1 Like
Right, i agree the cyno bonus along with staging multiple clone jumps its crazy. But it means no one can fly capitals anymore. Maybe this is what ccp wants. I donno. But when they make rule changes like buffing redeemers they need to consider how the buff will scale. It ruins the game for everyone else having one ship basically own all of eve space.
You’re missing An Opportunity™.
What’s stopping you from baiting out one of these BLOPs gangs and counter dropping on them?
The jump fatigue rules were introduced to stop entire supercapital fleets traversing the entire map as quickly as the cyno chain could be set up.
There’s also the very real possibility they’re staging out of a wormhole with a null static.
Fleets of a few dozen battleships would roll those wormholes, I think.
Also if you bait and fight these Redeemers are some of the few ships to be able to light a regular cyno.
Good luck trying to kill one, aside from their surprisingly high defences they can just cyno in a couple of FAXes to keep them alive. The only way to counter that is to be able to out-escalate a capital fight.
tell me you don’t understand wormhole mass mechanics without telling me…
so set a better trap and bag yourself a FAX as well?
There’s also the not insignificant fact that any nullsec static wormhole can’t take anything bigger than an Orca through it. Wandering nullsec connections to C5/6 space are capital capable, but they’re not statics and can’t be relied upon.
And if you send “a couple” of FAXs out of such a connection, at best only one of them will get back.
I agree I’m no expert in wormhole mass mechanics.
What I do know is that people generally use battleships to roll wormholes. Using a few battleships a few passes.
I found a chart:
Does that mean you can fit 3300 Gg through one of those big holes?
With a Redeemer being 150 Gg without plates or propmod, you can only fit 22 Redeemers through one such hole before collapsing it.
We’re talking about fleets of multiple dozens Redeemers here. Say, 30 of them.
Now tell me, wormhole mass expert, would those Redeemer fleets roll a wormhole or not?
The Fax will be killed by the enemy cap escalation if they have more caps nearby. Home advantage for the big blocs.
Six higgs rigged battleships can crush a 3b hole going out and back with roughly half the passes having a hot prop mod.
that’s a total of around 24 battleship masses, give or take depending on exact size of the hole in question.
So yes, a fleet of over ~12 BLOPs BS wouldn’t be planning on going back the way they came. They’d have another plan for that. It could be there’s a handy wormhole leading somewhere convenient in jump range of where the target is operating. They could be a roaming BLOPS gang just hunting through space until they find a handy connection.
Or the super easy and convenient solution is to simply filament the fleet out to Pochven and take one of the handy dandy static connections back into K-Space.
Taking a full mass fleet through a wormhole in the certain knowledge you’ll collapse it in the process is known as “going balls deep”. This is commonly done in wormhole brawls where the third capital ship will 100% collapse the connection.
So, the operational plan for a group operating out of, for example, a C2-5/0.0 would be to roll their null static until they land in a good hunting area. Send out hunter/tackle/cyno ships (XLASB Tengus excel at this), tackle enemies, blap them before the cavalry can arrive then cyno out to safe space. When they’re done, or targets dry up or they get bored, either return to their home hole, or take the Pochven express.
I’ve done plenty of roaming blops fleets over the years. It’s good fun. You should try it.
Me too, it’s fun.
But again, the Redeemer fleets in question aren’t 12 ships.
We’re talking about fleets like this one:
(which I assume got countered because of the home advantage of dropping supers, I wasn’t there.)
Fleets of a few dozen Redeemers, 32 in this case and a couple of Widows, will not be able to stage out of a wormhole. It’s not a matter of ‘not being able to return’, it’s a matter of not being able to move your entire fleet through before it collapses.
looks to me like that goon redeemer fleet got counterdropped and wtfpwnt. so much for the invincible redeemer fleet theory.
for a fleet that size, i’d say they are staging from somewhere handy.
If i had to make a guess, I’d say they’re in Osaa in The Forge. It has a station and is in direct jump range of a decent amount of Vale. There are plenty of other candidate systems for such activities.
Tactical intel on targets is probably acquired through the use of spai alts in FRT.
It also appears that Zoo Pel in their prospect landed initial tackle and lit the cyno.
Very perceptive.
Did you also perceive that your initial comment that about my wormhole mass mechanic understanding was wrong? After all, a fleet this size of a few dozen battleships going through a wormhole would collapse it.
Some space like Delve, we have npc stations and many roaming gangs stage out of there, and a blops can pretty much reach all of Delve, Vale of the silent has a low sec next to it so easy to stage out of there, but yes if they drop 50 Deemers it is hard to counter that fast enough to either save the target or cause major loss for the hostiles.
Well its time to introduce massive aoe damage when a cap self destructs, shorten the time to self destruct and increase the radius of destruction, it can’t be activated near a friendly fleet and has a 250km radius. Then Redeemer fleets owning caps would come to an end.
1 Like
I like your thinking.
show me on the doll where the redeemer touched you?
this is abject nonsense.
a fleet of bombers can destroy a capital with far less of an ISK and SP investment than a BLOPs fleet.
While bomber fleets may be a cheap option to kill caps, they’re also much more easily countered.
Bombers are a good option if your fleet is limited by ISK, while Redeemers are a stronger choice when your limit is how many characters you can bring.