I’m just getting to Exploration in this game, I’m trying to understand where the real bottleneck in relic/data site running actually is.
If I can already resolve most signatures with decent probe strength (Core Scanner Probes, Sisters launcher, basic scanning skills at IV), but still occasionally fail hacks or have to burn through multiple Relic Analyzer attempts, am I correct in thinking that scanning skill investment quickly hits diminishing returns compared to hacking skills?
In other words: At what point does improving scan strength stop being the main limiter?
Is it generally more efficient (ISK/hour-wise) to prioritize Hacking/Archaeology V over pushing Astrometrics support skills to V?
Or do experienced explorers view fast, high-precision scanning as the bigger long-term advantage compared to marginally easier hack minigames?
I’m trying to avoid spreading my skill training too thin, so I’d love to understand how veterans evaluate the trade-off between finding sites faster vs. clearing them more reliably.
The first time you run into a Covert Research Facility you can’t scan down, you’ll want Astrometrics 5.
The first time you scan one of those down, and blow up the can that has the billion isk implant BPC in it and your scanning ship, you’ll want Hacking 5.
scanning time
– scanning irrelevant sigs
– wasting time on scanning half-hacked sites
hacking
travel time within a site from can to can
While I haven’t precisely timed my exploration runs, hacking doesn’t take much of it in my experience. With good skills and knowledge of the hacking minigame you can click about as fast as the numbers refresh. And with Zeugma + blackglass combo you can click even faster as it doesn’t even matter to see what nodes you click.
Scanning and finding the right site in a system takes more time, and travel within and between the sites/systems too.
But usually you don’t have to choose one or the other, just improve both!
Given the choice between archaeology/hacking V and astrometrics supports to V, I’d personally go with the former since that lets you use the t2 analyzers which are a lot better than t1.
In the end it’s also not so much about how much isk/hr you can make running solo, but what you bring to the corp you end up joining.
To a wormhole corp, an experienced scanner will be able to scan out chains and find good trade routes, or potential targets to invade, quickly after you roll your static.
To a low/null sec pirate corp, you will be able to combat scan DED site runners so quickly they never see your probes.
The ability to move quickly and not to get caught is the priority. Navigation skills play a big role.
Then comes the ability to find the sites fast. A site is useless if you are reported in intel channels and stick too long inside the system trying to find it. So scanning skills are very important, but not as important as navigation skills.
Hacking skills are not that important, since the hacking minigame is 50% luck. Level 4 should be enough, level 5 if you want a bit more convenience and have nothing else better to train (and if you want to use T2 modules, of course). They are, however, useful in Sleeper Cache sites where failing to hack a container can trigger an explosion or an alarm and make you lose your ship. Ghost sites used to be like that, but CCP reduced the hacking minigame difficulty in them a couple of months ago.
While placement of the nodes is random, clearing them, using the utilities at the right opportunity and finding the final node fast definitely is a skill you can improve by getting better as player.
Besides that, having extra coherence from the respective hacking skill as well as extra strength from a T2 hacking module is definitely going to make hacking faster and more reliable. Level 5 in these skills is well worth it for someone who regularly explores data or relic sites.
Even if the hacking game were mostly luck, which I disagree with, then still getting the hacking skill to 5 significantly increases your success chance and hack speed, minimizing the time you’re vulnerable.
My personal opinion is that unless you specifically hunt for sleeper caches having around 92-94 probe strength is enough with scan speed and deviation leveled to IV.
And for hacking it is preferrable to have 40 virus strength to easily break through all defensive nodes. Coherence is not that relevant with sufficient strength, I rarely lose more than 60. T2 Analyzers are a must (until you can afford Zeugma).
For Alpha pilots I’d say this: fly a few t1 explorers, learn how not to die (D-scan, safe spots, etc…) and then switch to either SoCT ships or Astero for bonus virus strength - it really matters!
I can only say one thing to everyone reading this thread… Everything written above is irrelevant, no matter how quickly or how many signatures you scan. You’ll scan your 100kk-1kk one way or another, but getting them to the point of sale will be quite a challenge. In fact, whether your delivery to the top-tier hub will be successful is entirely up to you.
It all depends on whether there are “pirates” on the other side of the Stargate, because if there are, you’re 1000% dead. As soon as your invisibility from the transition wears off, you have exactly a couple of seconds to turn to dust! Warp scrambler, warp disruptor, bubble—no chance.
So, it’s better to spend your time and skill points upgrading your warships and using combat-based methods to earn in-game currency. Don’t waste your precious time, because everything you collect has a 95% chance of ending up in the hands of these “PvP” guys.
What you have encountered are the usual gate camps at regularly-camped locations like Ahbazon in a combat ship.
As you gain more experience in the game you will recognize those dangerous systems and avoid them, or use one of various methods to bypass a gate camp like that.
Luckily exploration ships generally are very hard to catch as they can often slip past such gate camps using one or multiple of:
fast align times, within 3 or even better under 2 seconds
warp core stabilization
covert cloaks
interdiction nullifiers
But these benefits do have drawbacks in combat so it while it’s good for explorers it might not have been a good option for the Caracals you lost.
All these meters don’t work. You’re locked and killed in exactly 2 seconds. Ships with a warp time of less than 3 seconds, T2 faction frigates – not a single one can warp out in less than 2 seconds. They’re trashed straight away.
I’ll make a video about these gates and show everything clearly. Current gameplay methods prevent 95% of “Cov Ops”-class ships from getting past these ambushes, as are frigates for scanning.
One warp stabilizer worth 2 points is all you can equip on a ship. It doesn’t save you from these ambushes; it’s useless. Because one module on the opposite side already takes away 3 points…
Half the ships/fits are trashed. This is called “balance.” You don’t even have time to return to the gate you came from…
I’ve been trying to get past the ambush at this gate for a while now, as part of my testing. It’s all useless: exiting, using Warstab, using Nullifier, pressing Cloak, warping away while fitted for 2-3 seconds — still a dead man.
Perhaps only two ships (the rest are trashed) can survive such an ambush; their settings allow a warp in under 2 seconds.
Pacifier and Metamorphosis. Is this a balance issue?
Here’s a link where a person in a fit for the 1.96 warp time, despite the short warp time, was still captured and killed… in comment 1.7 sec - dead…
The Astero too can get an align time below 2 seconds.
But I feel like something is missing here.
How do you manage to get caught in a ship with a covert ops cloak?
You do know that such a cloak is special and allows your ship to warp while cloaked, right?
There is very little chance a standard gate camp with a fast-locking ship can manage to lock your ship in the single second it takes to drop gate cloak and turn on your covert cloak as your ship prepares to warp away.
Believe me, I’ve tried. A sub-2s align ship occasionally can get caught with a high enough scan res by being ‘fast enough’, but you cannot catch a covert ship that way unless the cloaky ship seriously messes up their cloak timing and waits an unecessarily long time before turning on the cloak, or are unfortunate enough to spawn within 2km of an object.
Once a covert ship cloaks you then have like 4 seconds to burn toward them to decloak them in a fast ship if the gate camp is competent, and then lock + tackle, but a regular T2 covert explorer should have warped off in 3 or at most 4 seconds already, so this only catches slower aligning cloaky ships, like those using the 10 second long MWD cloak trick.
Again, if you get caught in a covert ship you’re most likely doing something wrong.
Could you explain the scenario where you get caught in more detail?
You’ve exited the Stargate. You’re invisible from the warp (60 seconds). Any action removes this effect.
Now that you’ve exited, here’s what to do:
Press Warp Stab, press Cloak, press MWD, then press Warp to a pre-marked point in space. Your ship breaks the 60-second invisibility, and the 2-second countdown to warp begins. At this point, you’re already targeted, Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor are applied to you, and that’s it, you can’t warp anywhere. Another second and you’re dead.
The Raptor fit in that link used two medium shield extenders for extra shield, three inertial stabilizers for better agiliy and two hyperspatial rigs for faster warp speed.
All three those mods and rigs have in common that they increase the signature of your ship and make it faster for others to lock and tackle your ship.
Catching someone who warps within 2 seconds (1.7 and 1.96 all rounds up to 2) is not impossible, it’s only hard.
However, that Raptor pilot made it a fair bit easier with that fit.
An active propmod (MWD or AB) will temporarily add weight to your ship so it takes far longer to align and warp off. On top of that, a MWD blooms your signature making it easier to get targetes fast.
The MWD cloak trick is nice but only to let a regular cloak be used while aligning. Don’t do it with a covert cloak, those don’t need a MWD to align while cloaked as they can simply warp while cloaked!
It’s the same thing, even without MWD enabled. Just try it yourself—it’ll all become clear without a thousand words. I turned on invisibility and MWD during other similar attempts, but this time with the goal of trying to return to the gate I left.