Scanning vs. Hacking Skill Investment – What Actually Bottlenecks Exploration?

New Citizens Q&A
41

The thing I was trying to say is that invisibility most likely failed somehow.

But I rely on your information to know how it failed.

Did they have decloak objects in space?

Were you unlucky enough to spawn right next to an NPC or the Gnosis?

Either way before you move and drop your gate cloak you have plenty of time to check your surroundings and decide a strategy.

Objects and ships within 2km of you stop you from activating your cloak. These objects may be invisible to you if you have the wrong overview settings. Make sure you see all brackets.

And before warping check your surroundings.

Can you cloak?

Fine, give warp command and immediately turn on your cloak the moment your gate cloak drops.

→ This option failed, most likely because you could not cloak

Can you not cloak?

Wait for the object to move if it can move, or go back and make a run for the gate you just jumped through:

Pre-heat your MWD, press ‘jump’ command and immediateoy activate your MWD as your gate cloak drops.

You should be able to survive this if you play well. The Gnosis cannot lock you if you are cloaked, so you weren’t cloaked if you got caught.

And they are correct, ships with a 1.7s align time can indeed get tackled. You however are flying a covert ship which can be ‘gone’ within 1 second already, by cloaking. Only if you are too slow with your cloak or they counter your cloak can someone tackle you.

That’s why I’m trying to figure out how they managed to counter your covert cloak.

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42

I don’t know. And now I probably won’t find out. Some stargates are sometimes completely clogged with junk/drones/depots, right within the radius of your ship’s potential appearance upon exiting the gate.

I no longer have any desire to find out what the problem was. The fact remains – consistent actions, even taking into account the advice and adjustments outlined above, don’t help at all.

Neither a warp time of less than 2 seconds nor pressing “warp to” and “invisibility” in sequence simply don’t help in such situations. There’s simply tons of evidence of this online.

I’ve requested a complete deletion of my data and accounts. This is exactly what all the “loyal game fans” are advising. I’ll find another use for my money where I won’t have to put up with this “balance” of opportunities.

43

I’m sorry to hear you give up and quit instead of improving.

You keep calling losses and getting outplayed ‘facts’ even though there still are things you could improve to increase your chances of survival to near 100%.

I’ve given many examples and a lot of feedback on actions you can take, but you’re right that just giving up too is an option.

It wouldn’t be my choice, but you can make it.

For anyone else who reads this: staying alive as explorer is easily possible if you’re willing to learn and don’t give up as easily.

44

The thing is, what you’re saying isn’t true… Pressing two buttons doesn’t require much intelligence, and it’s simply impossible to make a mistake. That’s exactly what I did following your advice – exited the gate, warped, and then turned on invisibility. But that didn’t save my ship either. Why? Let the people who are paid and responsible for ensuring everything works as intended, not as it turns out, figure it out. Server ticks/internet lag/heaps of garbage near the gates/lack of balance—maybe all of the above.

The rules are pathetic… When you tell someone to ■■■■ off in chat because they deserved it with their in-game behavior, and they ban your account (instead of banning your chat) and tell you to “respect” people who act like complete jerks in the game—that’s just ridiculous, in 2026. In real life, these people would have had their faces smashed in long ago…

45

I already pointed out several mistakes (adding MWD to the cloak+warp mix for a covops cloak, trying Ahbazon) so saying it is ‘impossible’ to make a mistake is just plain wrong.

Next, it is also never going to be 100% safe so all the things I mentioned merely reduce risk, not remove it.

Even if you press two buttons (cloak + warp) completely correct you can still get caught by bubbles or your cloak could fail because of an object closer than 2km from your ship.

The trick therefore is to add multiple layers of safety. Apply all the above, and fly an affordable ship so you can earn more ISK than you lose whenever you lose so you can continue flying.

All of those things are part of the game and in no way does losing a ship mean that the game is not working as intended as you seem to suggest.

You’re looking at EVE from a very strange point of view. Let me explain.

EVE is a competitive game.

Say you’re playing a competitive board game with some friends at a table in real life. For example ‘Catan’.

One friend manages to block your route or steal some of your resources through in-game means.

Would you say they act like a complete jerk?

No! It’s all part of the game you’re playing together. You wouldn’t be able to play for fun with friends if someone at the table thought competitive actions like these are ‘acting like a jerk’. You either stop playing with them, or play other non-competitive games with people like these.

Next, if you steal their resources and they in return insult your mother and your dog, would you say they act like a complete jerk?

I think most people would stop wanting to play games with someone like that.

Respect is about how you treat people outside game mechanics.

EVE is a game about many things, but largely it is about spaceship violence. In other words, if people shoot your ship they are not acting like jerks. And smashing these people’s faces in, as you put it, makes you the jerk at the table, not them.

1 Like
46

Perhaps everything you wrote is true. But you often skillfully “manipulate” words, accusing someone of “incompetence,” deliberately distorting the essence and picture of what’s happening. Perhaps everything is as you wrote—I won’t argue or deny it. I would simply advise those considering trying out the world of EVE to study the forum and threads related to “suicide,” “piracy,” and “mining.” You’ll see a lot of negative “opinions and reviews” from players, starting almost as early as 2020. Study it and consider whether it’s worth the effort, when a huge number of people are asking for adjustments to not entirely correct aspects and mechanics, but for six years now there’s been zero response to these requests. The variety of ships is a mere sham. For each activity, there’s only one ship option and its configuration, because everything else simply pales in comparison. A striking example is the recent attempt to fix such “imbalances” by nerfing non-faction ships.

47

Six years?

People have been dying in EVE to mistakes for decades!

But unless you are willing to learn and improve I don’t feel like my comments are helpful for you; you appear to be drawn to negativity and a ‘not possible’ attitude that I see from certain players who would rather blame the game or blame others for their mistakes instead of trying to learn what they did wrong so they can do better next time.

Just so you know, you’re not going to improve your gameplay if you blame external factors for your own mistakes.

Suicide gank negativity, non-faction ship nerfs (which?), strange facts about negative opinions of EVE ‘since 2020’ (FYI the first ‘EVE is dying’ thread was in 2003), EM dashes… could it be you’re relying on an LLM to feed you misinformation and write your posts?

48

Okay, let’s work backwards. What do you think I did wrong? Here’s the setup: exiting the stargate, pressing “warp to” on a previously created space marker, and immediately pressing “invisibility.” What could possibly go wrong here? What specific mistakes are we talking about in this particular case? Let’s make it more complicated: exiting the stargate, the space around the stargate is littered with drones that the pirates deliberately scattered (they do it on purpose)—what next? There are pirates at your stargate with ships set to “instant lock,” a grid, and disabling. What should you do in this situation? Can you give a specific answer? There’s a mechanic that allows you to escape this situation alive on a faction T2 Cov Op frigate configured for scanning?

I’m analyzing my mistakes, even using neural networks. I’ve written Python scripts, adjusted the saccrosses on the machines to minimize the delays between keystrokes – to no avail. I understand that, in theory, the time between removing invisibility upon exiting the gate and activating your own invisibility is 0.5 seconds on paper, and that’s a negligible amount of time for a human reaction (Formula 1 drivers have to do it xD). But I also believe my eyes – it has never worked!!!

-– STILETTO [INSTALOCK SENTINEL EDITION] — [Stiletto, Instant Lock Master]

# Low slots

Signal Amplifier II

Signal Amplifier II

Overdrive Injector System II

# Medium slots

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Warp Disruptor II

5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive

#High slots

280mm Howitzer Artillery II

280mm Howitzer Artillery II

#Rigs

Small Targeting System Subcontroller II

Small Targeting System Subcontroller II

IMPLANTS (REQUIRED)

Slot 6: Zainou ‘Gypsy’ Sensor Analysis SA-905 (+5%)

Slot 7: Zainou ‘Gypsy’ Signature Analysis RA-1005 (+5%)

FINAL CALCULATIONS (Skills V)

Scan Resolution: ~3,100 mm

Lock-on time by target type:

1. Shuttle (25m signature): ~0.82 sec.

2. Frigate (40m signature): ~0.65 sec.

3. Cruiser (120m signature): ~0.42 sec.

TECHNICAL NOTE: - Lock-on occurs on the first server tick. - A buffer (0.18–0.58 sec) compensates for ping and reaction time. - Warp Disruptor II activates automatically immediately after lock-on is closed.

49

Never worked? This is why I’m having such trouble following your problems. It always works for me, except in cases where cloaking is impossible due to electrical metaliminal storms or objects next to your ship.

There is no way for a fast tackle ship to target your covert ship unless you either:

  • are too slow to cloak and wait a tick for some reason
  • are too slow to warp and give them a few seconds to fly to your ship to decloak it
  • cannot cloak

So if your cloak is working and your ship warps within 3 seconds or so you should be getting away safely.

As you say it never worked for you, could you describe the situation better? Exactly which steps do you take, are there objects are around you, which ships are used, and where and when do you get caught? A zkillboard link also helps.

If you’re going to make an instalocking ship I recommend a friend or alt in a second ship with remote sensor boosters.

A few weeks ago someone in my alliance had the question whether it was possible to catch a cloaked target before it cloaks and I gave an answer, but wasn’t sure of it. So we went out in space and tested it with an ‘ultralocker’ setup.

I caught their shuttle once out of a few attempts with >5000 mm scan resolution. Ultralocking is indeed possible.

I also attempted to use the same ship to catch their covert Anathema with 3 second align time. This seemed impossible: the target was consistently cloaked and untargetable within the first tick.

This means that if you do not mess up your cloak and can use your cloak it should be impossible for an instalocker to be a threat to your exploration frigate in the vast majority of cases, like I’ve been trying to tell you.

The only exceptions are:

  • electrical metaliminal storms, which disable cloaks in the center
  • gate camps intentionally littered with many decloak objects
  • unlucky placement of a player or non-player ship

You can see the first one on the map. You can wait out the third one if their ship is moving while under gate cloak.

Only the second danger is really dangerous to you as it cannot easily be predicted when done outside a camped system like Ahbazon. If your route is going through some choke point or entry point into/out of HS space near a major market check your route to see if there’s a known gate camp, like with EVE - Check before you jump! . Or simply put a system like Ahbazon on your avoidance list.

Yea, I thought so.

Just so you know, LLMs like chatgpt aren’t all that accurate when it comes to EVE mechanics.

50

You’ve avoided a direct answer again. Which is exactly what I needed to prove…

I’m not planning on building a ship; I just provided a ship build that will lock you into the same server tick as soon as you decloak and immediately disable warp.

51

Okay, let’s keep it short then as you don’t seem to distill the answer out of longer posts.

Various things could go wrong here:

  • a decloak object within 2km of your ship
  • a warp disruption bubble stops your ship from warping
  • a metaliminal storm blocks you from cloaking
  • you were slow at cloaking

If any of these happens someone can target your ship.

So here’s my question: what happened?

The ship fit you linked won’t be able to lock someone that fast.

If you think it works, do a test like I did and give it a try! I already said I couldn’t lock a covert ship with over 5000 scan res so I don’t think you can with your fit either.

52

I’m finding everything perfectly. I asked you to give a specific answer, to a specific question, about a specific situation! And not those obstructions you use - what ifs, what ifs.

53

Okay.

about a specific situation

What happened in that situation?

54

Here’s the first specific case. How it happened: Exiting the gate, the ship’s radius is clear of objects, I press “teleport to” and “invisibility.” As a result, the ship is captured and destroyed. Where was my mistake here? As far as I’m concerned, there’s no room for error in this specific case. I was simply targeted on the same server tick as I exited invisibility—there’s no other explanation. Since the server has a minimum tick of 1 second, there’s no way to get out of this situation.

55

I find that unlikely to happen, but since you experienced it, I believe you.

A couple of questions.

1 Objects

the ship’s radius was clear of objects

Are you certain you see all objects in space?
Your overview only shows items of the filter you use, so if certain items are not selected they will be invisible to you. These items can still block your ship from cloaking even if you do not see them.

I play with the settings to always show all brackets in space. I may not see them on my overview but can see the icon next to my ship of a corpse, drone or container.

2 Location

Which system did this happen in? Even if you played everything correctly it could still be a mistake to go through a known gatecamp. Unless you wish to take the risk, why not take another route?

56

I am completely confident in what I wrote.

I can try writing a script that will monitor and log a person’s actions in the game, assuming the necessary data is in the game’s memory. Perhaps this method of thoroughly analyzing the “flights” will finally settle the question of why this is happening. The only thing is that such scripts are subject to banning by the rules, and using it by anyone other than me would be extremely dangerous. (My accounts are pending deletion, so I can use them without fear.)

57

I have no doubts you’re confident, but something went wrong so I’m trying to help you understand what it is that went wrong.

58

And the second part. It’s the same story, but let’s add to this situation a space completely filled with drones abandoned by campers (this is done specifically to prevent you from becoming invisible). How should people deal with this situation? I asked this question to highlight the imperfections of the game’s mechanics and balance.

59

Such a situation is a very rare sight and only done in certain locations.

Avoid such locations, take another route. Avoid Ahbazon. Be wary of common entrances from HS to NS. And if you find yourself in such a situation, turn on your MWD as you burn back to the gate and hope that you make it through alive.

60

You could also just find and read through the game logs on your PC. It’s a plain text file.