# Standing for the mathematically inclined

Hi,
Can someone please run me through this?

Stats as follows:
Social Rank 5 ( 25% bonus to standing increase )
Connections Rank 3 ( 12% modifier towards 10.0 standing if positive )
Diplomacy Rank 3 ( 12% modifier towards 0.0 standing if negative )
Starting point, Minmatar Republic Standing = -0.35
Dal Segno al Fine (“The Blood-Stained Stars”) Completed for the Minmatar Republic
Standing rewarded +0.728
Standing increased to + 0.38

Please explain to me, how that qualifies as an 8.75% standing increase? Base +7% (+ 25% from Social)

Standings

As a offnote, two days later I do a standard storyline mission and receive an +0.877 standing increase with the minmatars…?!

Did you read the Standings link the GM gave you? Because it makes it clear that a) your skills don’t count and b) the formula involved means that while you might be promised a certain % gain you will not necesssarily get that exact % gain and c) the gain is based on your current standings.

Now I’m no maths expert by any means, but you started with 0.35 and 8.75% of 0.35 is 0.03.

When you add 0.03 onto 0.35 you get 0.38, no?

I did look, repeatedly and I still can’t see how…

I started with a negative 0.35 standing (modified by diplomacy) and ended up with a positive 0.38 (modified by Connections)

Thanks for looking at this

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Hmm, I must admit I missed the negative in the start point. Are you sure it was negative? As above a change from 0.35 to 0.38 is a perfect 8.75% gain.

Yes, absolutely sure
And it’s the negative and positive numbers combined with the diplo and connect modifiers that is causing the dizziness

Applying the formular provided by the GM, my calulations should be: (I think)

10-(-0.35)=10.35. 10.35*0.0875=0.905625. -0.35+0.905625= 0.555625

New standing equal to a positive 0.5 maybe 0.6?

@Vanja_Baclon I’d like to caution you on what you post, as all communication between CCP employees and/or ISD volunteers and Players (you in this case) are strictly forbidden to be discussed or posted for the public to see (in ingame chat or here on forums). However in this case I don’t see any harm done as it’s simply an informative reply to your question.

Next time just leave out the corespondence between you and the CCP Employee/ISD Volunteer

Thanks ISD Sakimura,

I will do my very best to respect that, in the future

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May be a rounding error on the starting point combined with the 7% already counting your Social skill (would be 5.25% without Social)?
Your actual standing is around -0.4, increased to -0.35 due to Diplomacy.
7% increase would lead to 0.33ish before Connections, about 0.37ish after connections.

If the 7% does not consider Social skill yet, it may be indeed the that the 25% increase is not being applied properly.

Edit: I would take out the GM text on your post and replace by “GM explained to me it seemed allright…” or something like that.

Thanks Duo,

Hm, the 7% standard standing increase is listed on eve university here:
The Blood-Stained Stars

Also the 8.75 modified increase, I would assume that data is correct…

I’m not sure of the exact details of your specific case, but in general:

A standings gain % is always calculated as a percent of the difference between where you are right now, and +10.
A standings loss % is always calculated as a percent of the difference between where you are right now, and -10.
The effect of skills like Diplomacy and Connections is applied AFTER the calculation (the server keeps your un-modified values).

So, the math:

your -0.35 aftter Diplomacy = -0.39 raw standings (before Diplomacy).

The Social skill affects each reward from each mission, rather than your actual standing, so your 25% from Social is already factored into that 0.728 increase, which would have been 0.58 without it).

So, -0.39 + 0.728 = +0.34 raw standings.

Then apply Connections of +12% of 0.34 = 0.38 displayed (with Connections included).

His question was based on the fact that it was supposed to be 7% increase before the Social skill, or 8.75% after the skill bonus.

Oh, I see.

Well then I don’t know.

Screenshots of your repgain and such would help.

I mean, the numbers seem to indicate that that 0.7 reward is NOT affected by the Social skill, and in fact it’s just [10 - (-0.39)] * 0.7 = 0.728. Either the EVE University Wiki is wrong, or CCP has changed the SoE Epic Arc rewards, or the Social skill is bugged out and not applying itself.

Screenshots before and after with mouse-over info

Before

After

Those standing figures are modified by +12% (Diplomacy and Connection 3)

What really blows my mind, is that a standard storyline mission gave me a higher standing increase then the sister’s 50 mission epic arch…?!

Thanks for looking

My theory is, that it’s cause by the formula, penalising the initial negative standing, which seems to be opposing purpose:

“Standing gains are derived as a percentage change of the difference between current standing (unmodified by skills) and 10. The formula ensures diminishing returns on standing gains the higher you get to the maximum of 10”

I just did this for seeing what will happen:

I gained 0.91 standing percentages

I have maxed skills so 20% diplo/connections and 25% social

I guess it depends on the order which diplo and connections get counted and how the raw standings is tracked exactly. But there are some pretty good storyline missions available there at level 4 missions. Remember that the epic arc is basically doable by couple week old chars.

SoE epic arc is designed for newbies, really, so if you want to compare it, you should compare it to level 1, maybe level 2 missions. And even then, the SoE arc is more a tutorial, the point is to get the newbie to see all races and learn to “roam”, and not really to max his standings.

Actually, The SoE (level 1) Epic Arc is designed as an easy way to increase your Empire Faction standing. Depending on your choices in key parts of the mission-chains you can get either; Amarr, Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar standing. However it does have a 90 days “cooldown” period. The story is more important as it is an “interactive” multi-mission (50 to be exact) storyline, than it’s about teaching you to “roam”.

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