No, it means removing a tool that current lowsec players can use to outsource their security status grind.
Outlaws have meaningful consequences. So much so, that almost no one becomes an outlaw on their only character. Adding more “consequences” isn’t going to do anything.
If you think suicide ganking is unbalanced in some way, better to address the mechanics of the event to adjust the cost, or somehow address the vulnerability of the criminals around it. Just increasing the cost of repairing status isn’t going to do anything but hurt lowseccers who trash their status, and the ones that make a living farming the tags.
Exactly, is a tool used to outsource your security status repair, but that MUST BE a somehow long grinding process, so the recovery from -10 to 0 to be something with a significant impact in game, not an instant gratification for wealthy individuals.
You must be joking… implying that entire big low sec alliances like Snuffed Out, Shadow Cartel or Lowsecnaya Sholupen are formed from high sec dwellers alts is just preposterous. They most likely use high sec alts for logistic purposes but that have nothing to do with security tags, you do not lose standings with concord by hauling stuff in high sec
But it is a tool to outsource the security grind. That is the whole reason it was introduced. All tags allow you to do is pay someone else to spend the time grinding in exchange for ISK. Why shouldn’t I be able to trade ISK in exchange for work done or time spent, just like everywhere else in Eve?
The whole Tags-For-Sec thing created a profitable mini-profession and gets people out in lowsec risking their stuff to harvest this resource. I mean, you can claim that the game would somehow be better off if that profession didn’t exist, but I don’t see how you can be so sure.
I have no idea what you think I said, but what I intended to state is that the tags were put into the game for players who decide to give lowsec a try and end up trashing their security status. Instead of quitting the game when faced with the grind to repair their security status and return to highsec, this feature was introduced as an alternative mechanic for them to leave lowsec and keep playing the game.
Any “solution” to whatever problem you think there is in highsec needs to account for the reason the feature was added in the first place.
You make me smile again… People quitting the game because they need to grind their security status?
The low sec life is a life style who have nothing to do with security status, the population formed from people with -10 security status is huge, and all of them are fine staying and having a permanent living there.
Security tags was introduced as a way for helping high sec people to engage more in piracy and low sec pvp, without losing their access to high sec. Anyway, this was mostly a failed try as you cannot convert carebears in low sec pirates just by removing security status penalty… They will not go there because they are risk adverse, don’t like that type of game play, they like to mine, etc.
Instead, the main effects of security tags are unwanted benefits for very specific categories of players who permanently live in high sec, like suicide gankers (players who like to pew pew and are not risk adverse go in low sec anyway, as most of them are very happy with their permanent -10 security status).
To begin with, I’m going to list some of the goals that we had when starting this project. Some of these came from the high-level goals for the Odyssey expansion itself.
Give players a reason to be out in space. In particular, to be out in low-sec space.
Add something unique to low-sec that gives residents and visitors a resource worth fighting over
Add an alternative method of raising security status via the proven market mechanics
Provide an alternative way to get back in to high-sec for ‘reformed’ outlaw players. We have had players that would rather stop playing altogether than grind their way back up by killing NPCs
But we still need to respect the sandbox!
If your proposal breaks the two main goals of why the feature was introduced in the first place, you might want to reconsider things and come up with something that respects the original purpose of the mechanic.
Notice please that i have not asked for the removal of suicide ganking, or any direct nerfing of that mechanic like concord response time, etc.
The best thing about this two changes is that they don’t break anything else than the laziness of some people who want easy access to soft targets, but cannot live with the consequences of their criminal activity, like losing security status (God save us from that kind of horror…).
To have a meaningful role for the security status, people need to do some work and invest some effort into repairing it, instead of having a magic wand giving instant gratification like the security tags does.
You can still rat your way up. You don’t like it? Well, that’s the consequence to what you did.
Just make it so that you can not dock up in any system where you aren’t “welcome”. Think of “Empire access lists” handed out by concord.
I too think that having your secstatus broken should mean a significant pain. Why do I think that? Because the closest thing to secstatus is Empire standing, and it has a lot more severe consequences while being a hundred million times more difficult to fix.
I noticed you don’t ask anything of lazy haulers and miners who are afk or cannot be bothered to put in the tiny amount of effort it takes to protect themselves from ganking.
So yeah, gankers and naughty pvp’ers should be nerfed for being lazy. But lazy haulers and miners? That’s fine!
This discussion is not about your endeavour to educate people like miners or indy guys into doing whatever you want them doing, but is about what the developer can do to balance a game mechanic who can be overly abused.
Laziness is something i am not interested to address in any way, EVE is not a place meant to reeducate people; instead i brought laziness in discussion just because was used as an argument to not fix an unbalanced game mechanic, aka the supposed case of people who prefer to quit the game than to put effort into fixing their security status…
Suicide gankers can also can stay lazy as long as they want, but game mechanic must not reward them with easy kills…
If you think that miners get their ore to easy or haulers must not able to haul AFK, then make another thread where you can suggest some changes to address that kind of issues.
Here’s a far simpler solution: stupid and/or lazy players stop putting excessive value in their ships. If players do not willingly opt into becoming victims by flying ships with an average loot drop greater than the cost of a suicide gank there will be very little, if any, suicide ganking. Stop trying to change the game mechanics to pander to people who are failing to use the already-available tools to protect themselves.
Here is better solution.
“stupid and/or lazy players” will pay subscription and will be protected in HiSec to put anythig they want in their ships.
“Smart players” will pay subscription and will be able to shoot anyone in nullsec , and players with low standing in LowSec
You make again the same logic mistake as others, suggesting to force players to work against a game mechanic flaw, instead making it a task for the developers.
With the current game mechanics, suicide ganking can be performed as a continuous, risk free activity, by letting suicide gankers to have a permanent foothold and use as safe haven the high sec structures.
So the problem is not with the people who suicide gank occasionally, and as result don’t wreck their security status, but with the ones who make from this their main or even the only one activity in EVE; and that because actual game mechanics offer them cushy soft targets and easy kills on treadmill…
Moreover, how can even pretend that suicide ganking is balanced when it allows that even a single individual, who is able to do that while multi-box two dozens characters, to make trillions worth of killing in a high sec system? Try to multi-box more than two or three ships in real combat PVP and see how easy and often you screw it up!
Even a null sec player who regularly flies and risk expensive super capital ships, is striving a lot to get close to that numbers…
