Supplementary Skill Training via using related modules


(Darker Abys) #1

A system where your currently being trained skill can have a buff to training speed while you actively use or interact with associated modules or features.

For Example, I begin to train Blasters 5, while this is being trained if I fly a ship fit with blasters and fire on anything I trigger a short duration training speed buff that slightly increases the speed at which that specific skill is trained, similar to the remap system.

This would allow players to feel like they are contributing to their skill training by actively playing the game and using the corresponding things without making it OP and without making any other feature redundant.

Some skills would need to be grouped where there is no direct one to one relationship with an in game activity, or where its very diverse, for example reprocessing skills would gain the buff when ever a player reprocessed any modules or ore.

Or skill related to trade might trigger the buff when player auctions get bought or new buy orders are placed.

The time component of the buff, i.e. how long your little speed boost lasts would be tuned to the specific thing so for example shooting some missiles might net you a 5 minute boost of 1 or 2% while something thats a lot less common like reprocessing might net you a longer time.

The Values would need to be tuned and balanced, it’s pointless trying to think of concepts that eve players wont abuse because we abuse everything, this should not be a valid reason for not doing something, if it was we would never get anything new.

The benefits of a system like this are all player side, players may be encouraged to perform actions they might normally not do, pvp pilots who or off training some hualing stuff and want to speed it along might spend some time doing hauling missions to trigger their buff.

Miners who might want some new guns could be encouraged to spend some time killing rats, or shooting players to help their’s along.

And given the bonuses and percentages are not stupid, a lot of people will probably just let this buff trigger naturally.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #2

Nope and I’m sure ccp has learned this lesson. One thing allot of us like about this game is you can level up and make isk competitively even with a family and full time job. Unlike most games where that 15yo down the block can spend 16+hours a day playing


(Darker Abys) #3

Not talking about replacing the current system so no clue what your talking about. also hows your analogy even valid when you think about skill injectors.


(Erethond) #4

You know… I saw the title and :roll_eyes: immediately, but the idea of triggering what is basically a short term, low bonus cerebral accelerator is the most interesting take on this I have seen.

The “shoot one rat, get 10k unallocated SP” mechanic that is always being referred to as THE failed experiment (see above) failed at least partially because of its design: There was only one thing to do and it gave a reward that potentially had no correlation with what was done. The reward was also so big (10k SP is ~4 hours of training!) and the task so small that you had to do it.

Conversely, this could be applied as a “every time you use the skill you are currently training, you gain +X to the primary attribute for Y minutes”. It could also benefit the game as a change from the “I can’t do Z because I don’t have all skills trained to 5 yet”.

Also, while the “I can play EVE and have a life” argument is indeed appealing, skill injectors have already made actively playing a way to get ahead significantly in the SP race. I also would think that it is beneficial for the game when people are in space playing the game and providing content for other players, so providing some incentive to doing that might make sense.


(Cade Windstalker) #5

What he’s talking about is creating a pretty significant disparity between someone who can play 40 hours a week and someone who can play like 8-10 in terms of skill training speed.

Skill Injectors have a significant dropoff in effectiveness as you gain more SP, which your system would not have, and don’t rely on play time as much as your ability to make ISK. Making ISK is as much a function of cleverness and intelligence as time spent, and there’s a pretty diverse array of ways to make it. Someone with good analytical skills can make more ISK updating market orders a few hours a week than someone who Carrier Rats for 40 hours a week.

Your system would create a significant incentive to use whatever you’re training but that’s not necessarily a good or desirable thing. Sure it might get people doing or using things they might not otherwise use, but if you’re training something why aren’t you planning on using it? It basically turns skill training into another daily grind, where you have to hit the limit on your bonus or whatever or you’ve ‘wasted’ a resource.

Eve has always been a game more about freedom and doing what you want rather than having to hit daily quests or feeling like completing scripted content is required. Even the new Agency missions reward things that can then be bought on the market from those who did complete those missions, so if I want to complete them I can or I can ignore them entirely and do something else that makes money, which I can then spend on the rewards.


(Erethond) #6

There is already a fair disparity between players in terms of SP accumulation. Newbies vs someone with +5s, people who can afford injectors vs those who can’t, alphas vs omegas. A small boost granted for being active in the game would not be much of an upset and might actually help things a bit, by rewarding the enthusiastic new (alpha) player and enabling him to reduce the discrepancy with older, richer (omega) players, for example.

Sure, there will be some old rich player that spends all his time in EVE that might further benefit from this, but here comes your suggestion of scaling it with SP! There is also no reason why the bonus could not scale with total SP. It is actually a good idea.

There are plenty of reasons to not use a skill you are currently training, especially later in the game. You might be getting ready for a T2-3 ship while flying an entirely different ship class, or training to expand into industry while mining ore, etc.

And regarding the freedom to do whatever you want, make isk and buy the event rewards, it applies to this as well: You can do whatever you want, make isk and buy injectors, which gives you the SP you missed out on by not using the skill you are training.

This would also only benefit players who play the game, not SP farmers, which I think is a good thing.


(Cade Windstalker) #7

Alpha vs Omega isn’t a comparison worth making. If you’re playing Alpha you’re basically getting a free trial, there’s no need for them to have anything like SP parity with paying characters.

The comparison isn’t between someone with +5s vs someone with nothing, it’s someone with +3s or +4s vs +5s, which is a 50x and 5x price drop compared to +5s (roughly) respectively for a very marginal decrease in performance. It’s also incredibly easy to train up Cybernetics to a respectable level, even Alphas can train it to 3.

Lastly, and most importantly, Injectors already allow a newer player to reduce the discrepancy and do it better than this would. An older player is just as likely if not more likely to be active in the game as a newer player and the newer player is more likely to be training things they don’t want to be directly using right now. For example training into a Logistics Cruiser to be more useful to his buddies or to run Incursions, which has a lot of associated skills required, while flying combat missions to make ISK which don’t use any of those skills.

In comparison an older player who is either at the phase of training secondary things or polishing other skills to 5 has the freedom of choice and the time to go off and derp around in a Dread for a few hours a week for his training bonus and will get more out of it because he’s training at a higher rate already and the skills he’s training are longer, where as a newbie who may be running through a dozen or more skills to Level 1-4 in a week won’t be able to get the boost on nearly all of them.

This means that the whole idea that the newbie is going to catch up is an illusion, and one that’s going to be fairly obvious to the vast majority of players who put any thought into this at all, which is the same group that might be attracted by a feature like this.

In comparison Injectors get exponentially less effective as you have less SP. A newbie gets 400-500k SP per injector, I get 150k SP. That means for every Injector a newbie buys I have to buy 3-4 to get about the same amount of SP, and I have less reason to do so since I already have most of my skills that I’ll use in the next month or even six months.

It doesn’t that’s not equivalent at all, this isn’t a bonus you can buy if you don’t get it, and SP training is a fairly significant bonus all things considered since, as the old adage goes, Time is the most valuable thing in Eve. I can either train things that let me make ISK and get this bonus, or I can train other things and make ISK and lose out on the bonus entirely.

Also your claim that this wouldn’t benefit SP farmers is pretty laughable. An SP farmer could train market skills, use their farm alts as market alts, and both gain the bonus and double dip on profits by playing the market at the same time as making money off of SP selling. Same goes for hauling, manufacturing, and mining. All are pretty easily done across a large number of accounts passively.


(Darker Abys) #8

OK so lets walk through this, based on my basic idea some one would need to list an item, have that item sell to gain lets say 1 minute worth of 1% extra skills on their market skill, so to abuse this you would need to list an item every minute 24/7, and have it sell every minute 24/7.

Sorry but taking something to the extreme just to make a point when your not thinking it through is just silly.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #9

you don’t need to replace the current system to cause a problem. by giving a bonus to those that can be active you punish those who can’t. and injectors i am against but have no barring here. I can make 1b isk w/o being logged in just as easy as someone who is logged in


(Darker Abys) #10

How is this any different to that same player spending all his time making isk and buying skill injectors. or little billy using his dads wallet to buy skill injectors, or Mr Big Bucks with his 50k salary job spending his over paid pay cheque to do the same.

Your argument does not fly when there are methods in game now that do what your describing but on a much grander scale.

This system will help those players that cant spend all day playing by giving them a boost when they are playing if their active with the thing they are training.

And can some one else put in stupid time and also gain this boost OFC they can but if they are making a billion isk why the hell do you think they would not just use a skill injector which would give far grater bonus and skip far more time than the little passive bonus were talking about here.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #11

because I and many others don’t want to feel like they have to do x rather than y because x will get their skill up faster.


(Daichi Yamato) #12

Its still grinding and it still sucks.


(Darker Abys) #13

That’s the beauty of it tho, for most people it would be happening naturally, I would love to see numbers on remaps, cos I would be willing to bet that more players do not remap every time to max out their skill point gain, while those that WANT! to min max will remap.

This is the same, the major difference is that even those that cant be bothered to really focus on it will still from time to time be triggering those little buffs while they play naturally.


(Daichi Yamato) #14

If only it wasn’t the norm to use third party apps to optimise attributes and remaps…

Eve players are min/maxers.


(Darker Abys) #15

FTFU.

Kinda happy this is the best counter you have to the basic suggestion.


(Daichi Yamato) #16

Lughs already covered why its not going to happen. You’re forcing people to choose between optimum training or piloting efficiency.

Its a nerf to everyone who plays for no better reason than ‘itd be kewl’.


(Jint Hikaru) #17

NopeNopeNope… Been asked for and shot down many times before.

That sort of skill training just lends itself to AFK manipulation.

The beauty of Eve’s skill system is that people who can only play for 5 hours a week, can be on a ‘sort of’ even footing with power players who are able to put in 20-30 hours a week in.

Also can you imagine how much of a pain in the rear it would be if you wanted to minmax that, train mining lasers (shoot roids)… switch training to OreShips-V (Fly back to station)… switch training to Reprocessing (Process Ore)… switch back to piloting (Fly back to belt).
What a nightmare.


(Cade Windstalker) #18

This would make your idea an oppressive grind-fest if this was anything like how it actually worked, so I don’t see CCP ever implementing anything remotely like this.

Alternatively, train ship skills, undock ship from Citadel and just park it there. You’re “using the ship” 23.9/7 so constant training bonus.

Either way there’s no way you’re going to make this feel remotely fun or fair for normal players and not have some way for SP farms to also benefit.

As I’ve already explained, this is just absolutely not the case and I’m surprised a character more than a year old believes this at all. In Eve it’s far more common to be training the next thing you want to fly rather than training what you’re currently flying.

The more active and involved you are in the game the more this is the case, both because you’re likely to be meeting the needs of the people you’re flying with and because it’s more fun to fly a ship well than to fly something you barely have the skills for as you train those skills up.

It’s more telling that this is the best response you’ve managed to at least three different people pointing out the same basic flaw in your idea.

Also your idea isn’t basic, it’s just poorly thought out. There’s a big difference. Basic ideas go in the “Little Things” thread, this is a pretty large and substantive change to the gameplay that’s pretending to be ‘basic’ by being described in way too few words.


(yellow parasol) #19

Isn’t this basically the same thing the other guy proposed, but worded differently? Not sure if it’s worth it checking if it’s the same person.


(Darker Abys) #20

Not the same person.