Skills Queue 'training' vs 'Demonstrated Skill'

I posted the other day regarding my feeling that the current Skill Training setup in Eve is little more than a set of timers that need to tick over before certain items are unlocked and made available to the player.

Would it make better sense to replace it with a system where a player has to demonstrate skill at a certain level before advanced items, features, etc are unlocked?

The basis for this is already built into the missions system where there are rewards for completing them. One could even get to a point where before acquiring certain things you would need to achieve a certain number of kills for example.

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You mean that challenges should actually mean a challenge and not a “kill 10 rats in asteroid belt”?

But it would be like HTFU is still a thing, I thought this mindset was abandoned by CCP long time ago. :thinking:

But I would like to see combined system where you are granted SP accelerators for those challenges, and leaving passive SP aquisition like it is now. And these challenges should be available only once for character and gone after completion, so these accelerators would not be farmed.

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Standard response: that introduces (another way of, see: skill injectors) grinding for skills. Old system means “go off and do whatever while skills happen,” meaning freedom. Proposed system means “go do exactly this for exactly this skill.”


apparently he didn’t really read his last thread…

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Dude, it has been like this since the birth of the game, stop it already. You are given freedom to do what you want while learning what you want.

This isn’t WoW where you are told to go kill 10 boars, collect 10 apples, then move to the next zone to repeat the same thing but with different mobs, items, text and a different amount to get.

And we all state again, Skill Points does not equal Personal Skill, I’ve seen Alphas kick the crap out of Omegas and Omegas that play for years that still fly frigates.

BIGGER =/= BETTER (with the only exception being if you do missions in PvE or go rat or something.)

Imagine people that invest their time into industry, how would that work for them? How would that work for the people that sit in Jita getting rich by just playing the market? How would that work for explorers? You do realise that the game grants Freedom, and implementing this sort of speed in missions kinda gives a middle finger for everyone that has been playing for years that have not touched missions at all and people will be mentally FORCED to run these missions just because they give a skill boost. Nobody wants to be forced to do anything here.

No, I’m not suggesting fixed, scripted missions, I’m suggesting those missions plus general gameplay contribute to acquiring the required skill points. For example winning a PvP encounter would contribute skill points in Pvp related areas. Mining would contribute skill points for mining related ships, modules, etc.

This would give you the freedom to do whatever and accumulate skill points as you played.

You already do over time, we don’t need to be rewarded with more skill points just to hasten what we can use when we truly learn by the activity itself over time, it is not the ability to manufacture a capital ship that will instantly make me rich, and it is not a quick exhumer that will tell me to fly a ship only to get suicide ganked by someone. You can remap attributes to speed up on your main focus for a year (with 2 free remaps case you change your mind) and you can get implants to help on all fields, from +1 up to +5.

If you really want to get more skill points just use the money you’re getting to buy Skill Injectors, trying to divide skill points for the activity you’re doing is not really ideal since that would mean that for example my alt that does Exploration and PI would be unnecessarily gaining PI points when I want to focus on Exploration.

Not to mention the work it would be to even code such a thing, giving skill points to a wide variety of skills that are related to the activity you’re doing. It would need to compare weapons you’re using, size of weapons, missile type, shield modules, armour modules, ship hull, other modules, exploration, mining laser types, manufacturing, researching, sell orders, buy orders, invention…

I’ve played a game a lot like that. Guess what everyone did all the time?

Yep. They ground out skills so they could stay relevant against… other players who ground out skills. Such is the nature of games you play as an MMORTS where you’re the units.

Also anything with PvP involved can be abused by “kill this guy with my alt.” Or, if it’s just firing guns at each other, “get an alt and we shoot at each other.”

Agree, coding complexity is the most likely reason Skills Training is the way it is.

Still, I can’t help feeling it’s a bit like making a jam (jelly) sandwich and having to leave it on the plate for a couple of days before I can eat it.

I would love to see some serious changes to the way current skill training works.

For example, it would make perfect sense, that the more you actually use a skill, the better you get at it, so maybe introduce a bonus SP gain on any currently skill that is actively being trained when its being actually used. Or something like that.

This would have an additional bonus of all the inactive training / farming SP gain toons be no longer optimal in these regards. The balance would shift to actually actively playing players, instead of inactive.

Yo dawg, i heard you like skillpoints, so we give you skillpoints for your skillpoints, so you can skill while you skill!

So you want the hardcore players to get the benefit for playing 24/7… And those who have things to do get demotivated because they progress slower?

The system works fine as it is, the other MMOS came up with a solution in FAVOUR of casual players where they would get a boost to their xp gains by staying offline in Inns in the case of WoW

Now you might say “But wait, Hardcore players still get ahead cause they play nonstop in WoW, FF14, etc” So does in EvE, if you play non stop you are getting Isk and if you are getting Isk then you can very well sink it in buying Skill Injectors which is the solution to what you want here, buy one, use it, BOOM some days of training GONE.
~13 days of training for 500k skillpoints
~10 days of training for 400k skillpoints
~ 8 days of training for 300k skillpoints

Stop trying to trash people that play casually because they got better things to do with their lifes.

It’s not the most likely reason though. It’s all the other reason stated here and the other thread! It’s worked with some games. It wouldn’t work that well with EVE. There are FAR too many avenues of activity for you to adequately be able to cater for all the skills. Which means you’d have to get the skill boosts at a per group level (Reprocessing, Spaceship Command etc) and then it wouldn’t be fair as you could grind certain bits and funnel the skill points into a separate part.

The system works great the way it is and there are very few people who have the skills to do anything. So there is enough variety and choice for people as is.

Ultima Online had a system like this, where you needed to practice a skill to get good at it. It also took forever and lead to many a session of boring gameplay (I remember “playing” my wizard working on his spell casting in the academy, for hours, by myself, just spamming the scroll to cast some spell).

It kind of works for fantasy games, but in a sci-fi game like EVE, this system is MUCH better. Think of it as getting skills put in your brain matrix-style, then your brain has to process the new abilities to take advantage of them. Or you can skip the assimilation and run the “hardcore simulation” (ie use skill injectors).

Too easy to be abused. Personally, I’d just fit a gun with t1 crystals and a remote shield repper to myself and an alt, leave them shooting and repping each other in minimized windows, repeat every day until I maximized that skill.

For those unfortunate skills that you can’t do 100% AFK, I have enough alts to sacrifice if I need a certain number of kills to get my skills up.

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not a personal critique at you: i never understood why drug addicts are being called junkies, yet game addicts are being called hardcore. there is nothing hardcore about it, they’re junkies.

The term Hardcore gamer comes from the competition, actions, complexity, opportunities, always on top of updates, basically they play the game as effectively as possible while competing with others to be better than others in order to win against them, they may Or may not be addicted to games.

I am not a hardcore player, but you can perfectly call me an addict in video games, cause that is what I am. I think the only game I ever took seriously and became hardcore at was Heroes of the Storm, but slowly got fed up of playing the game not for fun.

thanks! i can assure you that anyone acting like the above absolutely is an addict. i’d say the term hardcore came up, because the industry would be in trouble if these people were called what they are: addicts. there’s people who behave like you and can still be addicts (your craving for the marshal made that obvious), but these pseudo hardcore people definitely are addicts.

anyhow, not the topic anyway. just annoying.

People that have plenty of skill points always think the system is fine as it is. The system is generally fine as it it. But it is not new player friendly at all. People shouldn’t have to wait 30+ days to train one level of one skill. Yes I know you don’t NEED to train most skills to level 5, but there is no skill involved with being forced to wait to get tier 2 ships or weapons or an extra 3% towards fire rate or whatever.

The game needs to allow you to fill combat skill injectors by doing combat missions and mining injectors from doing mining missions. And so on for each type of mission. Then people could grind if they want to and wouldn’t feel like they have such a huge gap from veterans.

If it had those options alongside the ‘time’ grind, then I think it would further reward active players and yet still give the option of new players running missions to learn, have fun, earn isk and gain skill points.

[quote=“Cardinal_War-Richte, post:9, topic:23036, full:true”]
Agree, coding complexity is the most likely reason Skills Training is the way it is. [/quote]

The System CCP have chosen is the best to keep the difference between those with job/family/RL friends and those with way more online time small.