Surgical Strike – Coming 15 April

[Jenna_Corinth]

Nevyn, I like the phrase TinFoil! Okay, so I’ll admit I’m one of the folks you’re speaking of. Whether it’s capitals or subs, have multiples of each ready to go for 12 alts no less. What you’re saying here is that CCP does not want that to be the case. You are right as well in that when I lose a ship, I could care less for that exact reason.

Taking this concept then, I’d assume CCP would anticipate a burn-through period where all these hangar extras are blown apart over time before we understand how the game will settle out.

On the PLEX side of things, I’ll ask if you feel that there will be an improvement to the purchasing power of isk in the game. If so, even with lower isk per PLEX unit, things would be the same as they are now. If not, then I fully agree PLEX won’t be an easy off button to compensate.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Jenna_Corinth

On the PLEX side of things, I’ll ask if you feel that there will be an improvement to the purchasing power of isk in the game. If so, even with lower isk per PLEX unit, things would be the same as they are now. If not, then I fully agree PLEX won’t be an easy off button to compensate.

I don’t really expect there to be any significant increase. Maybe in non mineral items a little, but I expect mineral prices to rise a little. So most hulls and modules will rise with that also.

[Dex_Darmazaf]

Thank God I stopped subscribing a few months ago. I always thought Eve was great, but I’m starting to think the game is going downhill. The only thing saving you now is the Corona virus. The statistics show how the number of players is decreasing over the years. Eve is not only PVP and I like to put in real money to support CCP. But that has changed now.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Dex_Darmazaf

The statistics show how the number of players is decreasing over the years.

Yet the last 6 month’s well before covid 19 the numbers were climbing again. You unsubscribed right in the middle of this climb yet numbers kept growing…
Hmmmm…
Almost like the numbers tell a different story than you would like.

[Dex_Darmazaf]

It is perfectly normal that the number of players increases after the holidays. Besides, the Corona problem has been in Europe since the end of January. And since the middle of February the numbers have been rising. And if you think that only one subscriber influences the statistics, then you should stop with the statistics.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Dex_Darmazaf

Besides, the Corona problem has been in Europe since the end of January. And since the middle of February the numbers have been rising.

So how do you explain the growth starting from September of last year?
Was that due to Coronavirus too?

[Dex_Darmazaf]

It is perfectly normal that after the holidays, the number of players goes up, but still look at the trend that goes down over the years. The only thing that did bring more Players was the Capital Patch 2018?

[DragoFire]

So you’ll counter the 5%-9% resistance loose per module before stacking penalties with a single 13% bonus from a DC and using Shield Resistance RIG’s?

Ok each shield RIG increase ship signature, and those give all weapon systems better hits and thus higher damage.

Not to forget Shield resistance RIG’s still have stacking penalties applied too!

Not sure you really thought this through. Hate to say and don’t tell them! But @Anderson_Geten shows clearly in one post the resistance effect is more than some think.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

So…

@Dex_Darmazaf

The only thing that did bring more Players was the Capital Patch 2018

Apparently you want to just backtrack now from your earlier claim and utterly ignore the evidence.
Gotcha.

[DragoFire]

???

Where’d you get that from?

Supers loose support tubes and gain extra heavy tubes, nothing was said about loosing any other tubes.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Dex_Darmazaf

but still look at the trend that goes down over the years.

If you want to cherrypick the population at the height of its popularity, that’s your prerogative. The point is that CCP’s recent changes have actually been well received by the playerbase and actively working towards a healthier game overall.

[digitalwarmaster]

Thanks for making Abyssal content even harder now because of the lower resists.

Also when are you going to grow some balls and nerf the kikimora and those Kiki blogs that are so disgusting?

Even mission running will be harder now, good luck bringing new players along.

[Anderson_Geten]

@DragoFire

So you’ll counter the 5%-9% resistance loose per module before stacking penalties with a single 13% bonus from a DC and using Shield Resistance RIG’s?

First it’s a resistance loss, not a resistance loose. AFAIK.

second it’s literally -20% to the resists, so multiplication by 0.8

Then you need to understand the meaning of resist gain/loss. Each resist application, after stacking penalty, is literally a resonnance layer : it multiplies the damage incoming by (100-res)/100 .

If you have a module that provides a -10% resist, and then another one which does the same, it actually multiplies damage by 0.9 then 0.9 again, so total damages are multiplied by 0.81 : two -10% modules are the same as a -19% , or in other words a -19% resist module has the value of 2 resist 10 Equivalent (R10E)

Formally, the number of -10% module equivalent for a resist of -r (remember, again after stacking penalty) is R10E(r) = ln(1-r/100)/ln(1-10/100)
here is the graph, with x the resistance of a module after penalties, with y the number of effective -10% module that is the same value.

Now, the question is : what do we lose with that patch ? so the answer is, the difference : what we had before, minus what we will have after patch.
Formally, the loss 10% Equivalent (L10E) :
L10E(r) = ln(1-r/100)/ln(0.9) - ln(1-0.8r/100)/ln(0.9)
= ln((100-r)/(100-0.8r))/ln(0.9)

I add the value to the previous graph here and we can notice that the loss is of a -10% equivalent for approximately a -36% module (the loss of a -36% is approximately 1 R10E )

So yes, the loss of ONE module that was -36% can be compensated for by adding a -10% module somewhere else.
Now if you add two modules and one of them was stacking penalized, you need to add the loss of the first and the loss of the stacking penalized second.

Before the patch, two invul gave as much as :
( ln(1-0.3)+ln(1-0.3×0.869 ) )/ln(0.9) =6.2521 -10% resist equivalent.(R10E)
After the patch, two invuls will give as much as (assuming -26%) :
( ln(1-0.26)+ln(1-0.26×0.869 ) /ln(0.9) = 5.29 R10E
So yeah the addition of a -10% resist module does compensate for it, but that’s because the invuls are not subject to the -20%.
If the invuls were actually subject to the -20% they would become 4.83 R1OE so a loss of ± 1.43 R10E. so no, you could not compensate the loss over two -30% before penalty by a -10% module (you would need a -14% module for 0.9^1.43 = 0.86)

edit : forgot a parenthesis, everything was wrong, my b.

[Gergoran_Moussou]

@digitalwarmaster

Even mission running will be harder now, good luck bringing new players along.

I’m not sure that incentive to run missions is helpful for new player retention…

[darkestkhan_Eriker]

@Anna_Ghekon

I am mostly a PVE Player. I also liked to do capital PVE. I am kind of sad that the capital’s getting boring as hell like they used to be. I also don’t understand the logics. The capital’s are strong yes but that’s just because the battleship are too weak. I mean a t2 and t3 cruiser is in every way stronger than a BS

False, they are not stronger in every way than battleship. Projection? Tank? Staying power? DPS? Cap warfare? Those are areas in which battleships are better than t2/t3 cruisers. Main advantages of [battle]cruisers is in mobility,

[Scoots_Choco]

@digitalwarmaster

Even mission running will be harder now, good luck bringing new players along.

Hopefully new players coming in after the patch will adapt to it because it’ll be the reality they grow up in and not throw a whiny hissyfit on the forums.

[DragoFire]

@Anderson_Geten all hardners, wards, energized and resistance plates get the 20% reduction.

That means energized plating, armor coating, armor hardeners, shield hardeners and shield resistance amps

*copied directly from surgical strike announcement page.
Only RIGs, damage controls and reactive armour hardner aren’t effected.

[Fourteen_Maken]

@Anderson_Geten

Before the patch, two invul gave as much as :
( ln(1-0.3)+ln(1-0.3×0.869 ) )/ln(0.9) =6.2521 -10% resist equivalent.(R10E)
After the patch, two invuls will give as much as (assuming -26%) :
( ln(1-0.26)+ln(1-0.26×0.869 ) /ln(0.9) = 5.29 R10E
So yeah

interesting, so are you saying about 14% less ehp on two invuls?
does that mean it’s about 7% lower ehp on one?
is it about the same for eanm?
does damage control unit or rigs mitigate this?
what about resist bonused or tech2 hulls, does that increase or decrease the impact of this nerf?

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Anderson_Geten

@DragoFire

So you’ll counter the 5%-9% resistance loose per module before stacking penalties with a single 13% bonus from a DC and using Shield Resistance RIG’s?

First it’s a resistance loss, not a resistance loose. AFAIK.

second it’s literally -20% to the resists, so multiplication by 0.8

Then you need to understand the meaning of resist gain/loss. Each resist application, after stacking penalty, is literally a resonnance layer : it multiplies the damage incoming by (100-res)/100 .

If you have a module that provides a -10% resist, and then another one which does the same, it actually multiplies damage by 0.9 then 0.9 again, so total damages are multiplied by 0.81 : two -10% modules are the same as a -19% , or in other words a -19% resist module has the value of 2 resist 10 Equivalent (R10E)

Formally, the number of -10% module equivalent for a resist of -r (remember, again after stacking penalty) is R10E(r) = ln(1-r/100)/ln(1-10/100)
here is the graph, with x the resistance of a module after penalties, with y the number of effective -10% module that is the same value.

Now, the question is : what do we lose with that patch ? so the answer is, the difference : what we had before, minus what we will have after patch.
Formally, the loss 10% Equivalent (L10E) :
L10E(r) = ln(1-r/100)/ln(0.9) - ln(1-0.8r/100)/ln(0.9)
= ln((100-r)/(100-0.8r))/ln(0.9)

I add the value to the previous graph here and we can notice that the loss is of a -10% equivalent for approximately a -36% module (the loss of a -36% is approximately 1 R10E )

So yes, the loss of ONE module that was -36% can be compensated for by adding a -10% module somewhere else.
Now if you add two modules and one of them was stacking penalized, you need to add the loss of the first and the loss of the stacking penalized second.

Before the patch, two invul gave as much as :
( ln(1-0.3)+ln(1-0.3×0.869 ) )/ln(0.9) =6.2521 -10% resist equivalent.(R10E)
After the patch, two invuls will give as much as (assuming -26%) :
( ln(1-0.26)+ln(1-0.26×0.869 ) /ln(0.9) = 5.29 R10E
So yeah the addition of a -10% resist module does compensate for it, but that’s because the invuls are not subject to the -20%.
If the invuls were actually subject to the -20% they would become 4.83 R1OE so a loss of ± 1.43 R10E. so no, you could not compensate the loss over two -30% before penalty by a -10% module (you would need a -14% module for 0.9^1.43 = 0.86)

edit : forgot a parenthesis, everything was wrong, my b.

Just to make this easy for people:

With a 20% module resist reduction across the board, your overall resistance profile will never drop by more than 20%, but depending on the strength of the modules you use, it can drop by less. In a hypothetical situation where you compare using using two 25% resist modules today and after the patch (when they become 20%), your resists will be roughly 82.1% as efficient.

What this also means in practice is that for PvE where you’re tanking against 1-2 specific damage types using high-percent hardeners, you will lose maybe around 10% of your tanking efficiency in practice, which is fairly minor, and can be offset with a single module change or by spending a bit more ISK on better gear.

[Anderson_Geten]

@DragoFire

all hardners, wards, energized and resistance plates get the 20% reduction.

Not the Invul. The invul T2 is set to 32 THEN lose 20%, making it reach 26% instead of 24%, as part of tiericide.