But the original point that the commenter made was:
I don’t believe I know many new players who are getting started into PvE with Guristas FOBs. Your point on it’s own might be valid. But I was responding to someone who claimed that this would hurt new players.
Have you actually done the math on how much that “months” of training will improve your ability to rat? I feel like you over-estimating the actual impact. I’m sure you’ve got some numbers or stats to back these statements?
And I had a one word response before I broke into my other comment.
L1-L3 zero change really. L4 might be a touch more iffy for those with support skills at 4 instead of 5.
High end content like FOB, DED 9/10, Abyssal, or Incursion. Yeah you definitely feel it.
So are we in agreement that Lazrial’s comments about how this will hurt new players may be over exaggerating, given that new players aren’t going to be jumping into FOBs, DEDs, or Abyssals? Because that was really where I was getting at.
I think it’s clear that everyone agrees high end PvE (like T5 Frigate Abyssals) will definitely be impacted. But I believe is it very debatable this patch’s impact on new player PvE.
It will hurt new players. It will remove a % of the tank of the caracal, drake (14% for this one ?). The more people had resist bonuses the more they are hurt, so yes new players with meta fit will lose average less than old players with deadspace/officer modules.
This will make a difference as the requirements are higher to just scrape through on content. yes for the most part newer players wont feel it until they are a couple of months into the game and completely hit a wall where content progression basically stops for months without any point in even trying. some of the jumps in difficulty are big, they just got even bigger
Generally though outside of blitzing the name of the game for basic PvE is speed/range kiting.
Yes there is something of a resist ding. But that can be more than made up for by swapping one DPS low over to additional tank for the easier missions. Or by slotting in a T1 resist rig or two. So somewhat slower but by no means a real hurt.
And it won’t harm some of them to get more in the mindset of speed blitzing L3s instead of gunning for L4 immediately. Or some similar swaps in how they approach the easier DED 1/2/3 stuff.
The real dings show up in L4s and up. But basically it just means the support skills check comes earlier so they end up losing a cruiser or BC instead of BS by trying to upscale too early.
Except that one can refine the rate at which they can complete content they can handle while working on the requirements for the next step up. Just because you can’t make the hop to the next step doesn’t mean you can’t get an extra 30%+ profit out of optimizing where you are step by step.
True, but is it necessary to start effectively gating content behind a bigger skills wall than there already is? I did a lot of content to make isk and planned specific skills to get into a Machariel with a fit that i thought had enough survivability to risk (i had it sat for a month while i was waiting for training to finish), the nerfs would have just made this happen a lot further down the line as i would have needed to train more before i was happy with its tank.
Comparing EvE player interaction to WoW is ridiculous as there is zero potential to lose gear and resources. The people that can not stand any loss find out that they do not like EvE quickly and leave. Anyone that sticks it out to become an Omega player for any reasonable amount of time is way less risk averse than most games as most games do not have open of a sandbox with item/resource loss at the level the EvE has. There is no skewing needed unless you can show me a more risk based MMORPG.
I was wondering how I was gonna get my Deimos fit to work. My tengu mission runner will not be effected too much, I will lose some dps when I hotswap the rigs for better resists. I have not done abyssal stuff yet so I don’t know how bad it will effect those peeps. I can see this messing up passive shield tanks fits but I always use active. All I see is that you have to switch one mod or rig out and miss out on some DPS.
I like the battleship ship buff, we should use battleships more.
I guess speed tanks are going to be making a comeback? Which is bad for me since I’m horrible at it. In fact I’m pretty bad at PvP and I only get ganked when I fly a Vargur in lvl4s.
This really doesn’t effect me I guess? I’m nearly 100 million skill points in and I have yet to train for that Nidhoggur I wanted to get because I like flying sub caps too much.
I do think the 15% increase in null type ammo may be a mistake. But, I want to see if some of the up close fits will work better in mission running with that damage increase. I doubt it, but it will be fun to see.
Removed more off topic posts.
I’ve played both EVE and WoW since their inception (although I quit WoW a few years ago and never came back), and while it’s true that in WoW you couldn’t lose resources through player interaction (with the exception of minor repair costs and through the auction house), there was a very heavy emphasis on losing pride and personal honor through PvP, which in turn had the exact same effect on WoW PvP that losing resources has on EVE PvP: people generally avoided open-world combat, tried to overpower the enemy through sheer numbers, taunted enemies from within the safety of their walls, etc.
As someone who has spent a significant amount of time playing both games, and engaging in nonconsensual PvP in both games, I can attest that the mentalities of players between the games don’t actually differ that much, if at all.
I used to also think that EVE was somehow “special” and “elite” and attracted the most hard-ass dregs of society, but then I realized that it’s the same people playing all of these games. Each game will have a similar share of pirate scumbags, fuzzy carebears, people who have played cell phone mobile games their entire lives and decided to give a PC game a try after seeing some banner ads, etc.
That is exactly the case. The people raging and cursing in this thread aren’t upset because they won’t be able to do their content anymore, but because they will be forced to do it slower after adapting their resist module profile to the changes. And this is anathema to them, because their sole reason for existing in this game is to get as much ISK into their wallets as possible, and if anything negatively affects that in any way, their souls catch on fire.
Greed is a powerful emotion; people have to consciously train themselves to overcome it, in order to see the bigger picture. I used to chase money too, until I realized that ISK is just another tool in my EVE toolbox, like my ships and my modules, and that very often, it’s not about how many tools you have, but how you use them.
But I don’t expect anyone who advocates for pure, unbridled PvE boosts, PvP flag toggles, etc. to be at a level where they’re awake enough to understand this. These people need to simply be argued against and controlled, so they don’t destroy this game by turning it into a farming simulator in which people endlessly accumulate resources, and then quit after playing for six months because there’s nothing left to do aside from spinning one of your fairy-fit faction battleships in the station.
Not exactly. There is certain higher end content where the incoming damage is so high that if you cannot maintain 90%+ resists it isn’t reasonably possible to complete.
So unless that content is re-examined and re-tuned there is some valid criticism about the changes. Any fits that already were maintaining 2 hardeners/invulns + rig and thus eating the 3+ stacking penalty don’t have a particularly reasonable way to adjust.
This, we need resists, without them we die horribly in pve.
Maybe just keep resists, and increase all damage?
I know you’re not going to like this, and maybe not understand it until you’ve been playing for at least 1 year, but the very fact that you would be flying a battleship, even with a friend, after having been playing for 2 months only, is what sounds wrong to me here.
IMO to prove your point you would need to provide an example of PvE content you could do with frigates or cruisers before and that you won’t be able to do after the changes anymore.
Pretending the changes are bad because 2 months old players won’t be able to run some kind of PvE content with battleships makes no sense to me, regardless of whether that’s actually the case. I’d be surprised if CCP cares at all whether you’ll be able to keep doing that anymore or not.
Could that not be solved by adding buffer so that logistics has enough time to respond? I’m going to assume that the content in question is group content.
If CCP’s intent is to slow down the ISK faucets, then they’d need to actually lower the damage, which would have the same effect on PvE as reducing resistances, thus forcing players to sacrifice damage for extra tank.
If they raise damage, which would function similarly to dropping resistances for PvP, then they’d have to drastically increase PvE NPC health to compensate. This might, in theory, be a better option than the current proposal. Increase player damage, keep resistances intact, and increase NPC health (or drop PvE income).
CCP wants to stop the financial power creep. So all PvE activities that directly generate ISK need to be affected. To be fair, I personally hope that L4 missions aren’t affected as much as incursions, DED sites, etc. Wormholes are probably in an okay place right now, considering the risk (maybe a slight drop is warranted though).
I suggest that CCP can remove all PVE content in the GAME. Player must pay plex to buy ship and equipment to fight that CCP can earn more money and kick out all PVE player as they wish. I think it is the most direct way to force players to fight in the game. Any nerf of PVE cannot completely prevent players from PVE activities.