A duel to the death is over once one of the participants die.
It becomes a problem when both participants are immortal, see?
It means the duel can go on forever, without a clear winner, if none of the sides gives up.
Not even taking into consideration that the aggressor can just remain in system, and keep harassing you waiting for you to shoot them again and start the process all over again.
Rather, running away is probably what the player doing the harassment wants.
But this is not a duel to the death, it is a duel for a fixed period of time. The fact that you want a duel to the death does not make it one.
It means the duel can go on forever, without a clear winner, if none of the sides gives up.
Why is this a problem?
Exactly why Iâm suggesting for this change.
And fixed period of time isnât really the truth, as the timer can be continuously reset just by the aggressor shooting you again, so it can go on forever if you donât run away, essentially being your loss.
Read above.
Itâs a meaningful choice.
Engage the suspect knowing that it creates a 5 minute period where both parties can shoot eachother, or donât.
That 5 minute timer is as much an opportunity for you to re-ship and come back to have another go as it is your opponent.
But EVE is the pvp side of EVE. Itâs a fundamentally pvp game.
And if you arenât interested in the pvp side of eve, why did you engage a suspect?
If neither side wants to give up then how is that a bad thing? Players that want to keep fighting can.
And as soon as one person wants the fight to be over they can avoid their opponent for 5 minutes. Itâs a short amount of time and very easy to do.
So put your ego aside.
More rules is more to learn and more to confuse. So a simpler system where Limited engagements have to consider more than fights to the death is better.
If the price of that is your e-peen, so be it.
Being stuck inside a station docked up because of people messing up with you certainly isnât.
Because they are a suspect�??
It doesnât bother me as much that engaging a suspect opens up the limited timer, as itâs good for quick duels and etc.
What bothers me here is that criminals basically get the same treatment as suspects regarding the limited engagement.
A thief that only steals is vastly different from a murderer who shoots to kill, so they should be treated accordingly.
If the victim manages to kill off the criminal who shot them, they shouldnât have the right to come back and try again after their weapon timer has gone off and they got a new ship.
Until you are engaged again, and if you donât want to get the limited timer, you are helpless and have to rely on CONCORD to come rescue you.
This clearly favors the attacking side, as they can keep trying over and over until they win or you run away, which is essentially a win for them.
This isnât about ego.
Itâs about a clearly one-sided unwinnable situation, which can only be resolved by running away and hiding until the oponent gets bored and leaves.
Itâs already confusing enough for a new player to shoot a criminal in high sec, only to have said criminal show up before you not long after in a bigger ship and kill you off.
Suspect and criminal timers are supposed to be a sort of punishment for doing certain actions in High Sec, and give these players a disadvantage in combat, but they barely matter due to the limited engagement timer.
Iâm not sure what youâre getting at here.
Criminals, by eves definition, get nuked by concord. Suspects donât. And that concord response still happens even if other players start shooting the criminal.
So they are already treated on vastly different ways.
And if it was the other way round?
Say he killed you and was looting the field, you wouldnât want the opportunity to re-ship into something more effective and have another go? Have a chance to get your loot back?
Even if you wouldnât, other people would. And thatâs how CCP need to think. They need a system that includes as many situations as possible. And especially ones that leads to more content.
Players sitting out for 5 minutes is a very small price to pay.
It favors whoever is stronger, irrespective of whether they are the attacker or defender. This is the nature of existence and the sandbox reflects that.
Eve is a harsh game by design.
If it wasnât you wouldnât consider docking up for 5 minutes as a âlossâ.
After you kill the guy you put âGFâ in local and dock up to wait out the timer. You won but you still dock up because of what they might come back with.
Itâs just 5 minutes.
Thatâs going to be the case almost no matter what the timers do. Players can hunt you and gank you. This is the nature of eve rather than a failing of the flags.
Not exactly.
Suspect timers are designed in such a way that anyone who commits a suspect act is opening themselves to pvp. There isnât any disadvantage designed into the flag other than they can find themselves out numbered and out gunned.
Suspect flags are there as an offer to pvp. Limited engagements are there to allow people to fight back if someone accepts that offer.
So basically yet another angry carebear that doesnât know how mechanics work and thinks he knows better, while at the same time making everything needlessly complicated.
System is fine, deal with it.
Hell, you shouldâve seen it before crimewatch 2.0
Welp, thatâs the truth.
I was under the impression that once a criminal is killed, their suspect/criminal timers are reset, and only the limited engagement is kept active, with the only actual punishment being a security status decrease.
I did some testing on Singularity and now I know thatâs not the case, and although a criminal is able to warp around, jump to another system and even dock up, if they board a new ship and undock, they will be unable to warp and get CONCORDed.
Your warp engines have been disabled due to your recent criminal activity. The criminal timer will run out in 4 minutes and 34 seconds.
So, if I understand it properly now, a limited engagement exists so that the victim is able to kill the attacker capsule without becoming a criminal, and as for the criminal, they get no use for it, as they get no benefits from boarding a new ship while the criminal timer is ticking.
So, returning to my original post, there would be no issue in implementing my original suggestion if I simply remove the portions about limited engagement changes, right?
There isnât any real punishment for suspects in high sec, like being unable to warp off or being attacked by CONCORD on site, so they can just do it over and over again and keep reseting the timer until they get someone to bite, and receive an unlimited no intervention murder right for 5 mins, which can be continuously reset as needed.
Itâs impossible to reset your criminal timer, and the player needs to wait it out properly, like a âjail timeâ.
It should also be impossible to reset a suspect timer continuously, as doing a new suspect action would give you the red card and turn you into a criminal, so you have to wait before comiting a âlesser crimeâ again, or have a thief buddy to help you out, like said before, so you share the blame for each suspect action and no one becomes a criminal.
It helps improve the safety of high sec and also stimulates aggressors to group up for criminal activities, instead of making a free for all suspect fest, loot as you want, shoot if anyone shoots.
But you still havenât addressed the question of why it should be a fight to the death instead of a fight for a fixed time, except that you really want people to stop shooting at you once you decide that youâve âwonâ the fight.
And fixed period of time isnât really the truth, as the timer can be continuously reset just by the aggressor shooting you again, so it can go on forever if you donât run away, essentially being your loss.
If they come back kill them again. And again. And again. Eventually they give up and you win.
It helps improve the safety of high sec
This is not a thing that is needed.
Itâs up to the players to provide that punishment.
Suspect timers are there to allow pvp. Not as a punishment in itself.
The last thing we need is more safety. The game is failing under too much safety and not enough destruction.
The nature of eve is players have the freedom to be the bad guy and âloot as you wantâ.
I wanted to point out to youâŚyour character never dies permanently, so âmurderâ doesnât really apply.
Concord deals with theft, not murder.
When I first started I had another player âstealâ my stuff, when I was blown up by npcs during the tutorial stages, at that time. This player incurred a suspect status to retrieve what meager belongings I had, so he could return those remaining belongings to me. I could have shot him, so could others. He was suspect; but, no one did.
The next time I had a run-in with the highsec suspect/criminal mechanics occurred when another new player shot/blew up a wreck that was tagged by the game as mine. He didnât know what he was doing, and he apologized to me later, after losing his ship to Concord. If I remember correctly, I got a kill right out of it. I didnât exercise it.
Since none of our characters âdieâ permanently, Concord/crimewatch/suspect status deals with theft only. Harsher penalties are meted out when items belonging to you cannot be recovered, i.e. when wrecks are destroyed rather than simply looted.
So, the player who tried to help me, by âstealingâ my stuff from my wreck, got a suspect status as none of my belongings were destroyed; the player who shot my wreck, thereby destroying my belongings was Concorded, as my belongings were no longer recoverable by myself or any other.
Ships are just assets also, like fittings and ammo, or even pods.
Murder is not really a New Eden concept. Itâs more a linguistic convenience to describe the loss of a ship or pod.
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.