I have been thinking about this a lot lately as my play style is very nomadish. I think instead of trying to get small structures, which likely won’t happen, we look at maybe T2 mobile depots or something like that. So far my idea is basically this.
T2 mobile depot (tether)
100m3 with 5000m3 storage
Can repair like any other tether
When reinforced can not tether
Anchor time 5 min unanchor 5 min
Limit 1 in space despawns 72hrs if inactive
T2 mobile depot (compression)
100m3 with 5000m3 ore hold 100m3 regular hold
Can compress ore
When reinforced compression is offline
Anchor time 5 min unanchor 5 min
Limit 1 in space despawns 72hrs if inactive
T2 mobile depot (manufacture)
100m3 with 5000m3 mineral hold 100m3 regular hold
Has 1 manufacture slot (making ammo and consumables)
When reinforced no new jobs can be started
Anchor time 5 min unanchor 5 min
Limit 1 in space despawns in 72hrs if inactive
Now obviously numbers will need to be sorted to ensure its helpful but not abusable or OP but something like this would go a long way for the nomadic player or the solo guy. You can setup shop in the system or WH of choice farm your content then pack up and move on. I think an idea such as this has far more likelyhood of being implemented than small structures. So if anyone wants to contribute to this idea feel free as I don’t do Indy or mine so I don’t really know what would be helpful there. The intent however is for this to not be OP or abuseable, but to allow for an easier nomadic experience I know players other than myself enjoy.
Figured instead of all the threads asking for small structures I’d float this idea and see if it gets any traction. If its trash well…flame on…
A lot of people who wish for small structures to support a nomadic lifestyle don’t seen to realize how big they were - a small control tower was 2000 M3, Ammunition Assembly array 1250 M3, Compression array 6000 M3. None of the ships that could actually carry this stuff is really suitable for the role.
A T2 mobile depot as described makes more sense but the host ship still needs an industrial size cargo hold to unload and recover the depot. It’s hard to see what ship would be suitable. People have discussed the Orca - which isn’t very stealthy if you’re roaming through dangerous space and giving it additional capability say a T2 version - would be hopelessly overpowered in highsec.
Consider the possibility of a new offensive subsystem for the T3 cruisers - call it “industrial reconfiguration”. What functionality would it need to meet your requirements? Bear in mind that the T3C has a subsystem hold and you can reconfigure it using a regular mobile depot - including swapping the rigs.
This would give you covert cloak (covert reconfiguration defensive subsystem) and interdiction nullification (propulsion subsystem). Cargo capacity would be limited - the industrial subsystem could give it a boost but you would lose the extra capacity if you fit a combat subsystem - interesting tradeoffs!
In general I think the initial one - a drop-to-tether module - seems like a perfect WH Daytripping option. The problem with these small structures doing things is that they then have to be fueled or they are infinitely better than Raits/Athanors, as those do need fuel. The “1 in space” rule is a bit weird, as I don’t think you want to be able to lock down anyone coming into a hole by just poking your own one from time to time. I’d just go with the standard 1k exclusion zone.
In general I’d be happy with any solution that fills the small pos niche for people without being ultra-strong defensively. Depots, small structures, tether-beacons, whatever. As long as they give people deployable, attackable places to pop up, I’m sold.
I think CCP it just very greedy they had a good thing going with pos their excuse was it was an unfair advantage because it wasn’t venerable as long as you kept it fueled up
With the exception of an hour 3 days a week at the end of discussion read example below
I think they need to redesign the pos to where they make that forcefield vulnerable just like the citadel’s 3 times a week if you get in there during that time
you can shoot the structure inside and destroy it but also the forcefield would have so many hit points something like 10 or 12 thousand but once you break through the forcefield you can destroy the structure inside
it has to be within that hour
there again ccp’s greedy and they want more money!!!
The reason for 1 at a time is to prevent spamming. It would also have to be launch for self. Having the same 48hr reinforce but maybe not be scoopable during that time. Would also need to be hard to scan down but not impossible. Requirements for fuel would make it pointless as ships like a t3c or strat couldn’t bring enough fuel for it. That’s just how I see it at least but I think if enough people, especially ones older in eve than I put some thought in it, it might actually be a viable option instead of small structures.
The point was to have an option for repairing, compressing, or making ammo and consumables while you are say spending a week in a WH or hiding in some back corner of null type of deal. It would also generate more PvP as it would entice people to hunt them more so than a mobile depot you could just scoop and redeploy.
Yes 1 in space deployed per character at a time…its too powerful to have people spamming them…and they’d see much more use so you’d find tons of them for each system…now if the price was right you could indeed nerf them back that way as people would hunt them much more.
The only problem I see would be the Mobile compressor, it would need to not be able to be put close to asteroids, otherwise it would make irrevelant the Retriever/Mackinaw as opposed to the Covetor/Hulk by a huge factor.
About fuel and size, I’d like to see the mobile compressor small enough to fit in a Prospect and not cost fuel, but the other 2 should need a Blockade Runner and a need of fuel to produce or make tether repair ships.
For the size of the compression depot, because It would make going into nullesc/Jspace/lowsec with a prospect something possible, going on a adventure with a mining barge is just pure madness, as for the fuel, it could be needed for activation but more and the prospect couldn’t take it with the compression depot.
The tether gives a really handful feature (near invincibility and repair) which should not go without a detriment as much strong, but as second though not so much with the ammunition factory.
All of these would cease function if reinforced so while you could be invulnerable while tethered you won’t be for long if someone attacks it…also bumps. Same for the manufacture one as it would be easy to reinforce.
The point here is most nomads aren’t going to fly 30+ jumps with a BR to deploy one and then ferry fuel…after all that you gotta go get your pve/pvp ship. It would need to be something that you could bring with a cruiser so you didn’t have to make insane trips…else just use a small POS.
My thinking is to make them challenging to find but not impossible, but once found easily reinforced and non-scoopable so they can be killed. I sure wouldn’t leave expensive bpc in or afk tether to one. Equally they would need some limits to how close to things they could be placed. I wouldn’t want compression ones in belts just as I wouldn’t want tether ones on top of a citadel. Maybe a 1,000km from celestial and structures limit would solve that.
Edit: However if they can’t be scooped when reinforced and had similar ehp to a standard mobile depot then I don’t know if deploying them close to structures or belts would really be an issue…you could just reinforce them before they could be unanchored as it would need to be like 5 min down 5 min up so easily enough time to reinforce and prevent them from being scooped. Also 5 min down means if you tried putting them…say…in a belt, someone could stroll through scoop and run. In fact the more I think about it the more I see all the great possibilities for awesome content. Fights, piracy, and nomadisim in hostile environments. All fun and interesting facets to an already interesting sandbox.
I like the idea of having something between a mobile depot and an Upwell Structure.
But thoose are way to small, for the bonus they give to the player. They need to be alot bigger then a t1 mobile depot, because of the suggested cargo hold sizes and the tech it carries.
As examples:
Nothing smaller then an Upwell Structure can tether, which most likely means it requires some serious engeneering to work, its most likely not a small “tether generator”, nor does it use a small power source.
Nothing smaller then an industrial core in a rorqual can compress, its 4000m3 volume and uses 1000 units of Heavy Water every 5 mins.
Nothing smaller then an Equipment Assembly Array for the old POS, could manufacture anything. Its 6.250m3 volume, 200 million kg and has a signature radius of 2000m, fricking huge! Cant remember the fuel consumption though.
Assembly Arrays are now replaced with Standup Manufacturing Plant T1, which is 4000m3 volume, weighs 500kg and uses 864 units of fuel to online, 12 units per hours to keep running afterwards. Way lighter then Assembly Arrays, but the deployed size is inknown.
Looking at the t1 mobile depot, it expands from 50m3 volume to 3000m3 cargo space, volume after deployment unknown.
It has a signature radius of 500m when deployed, signature radius before deployment is unknown.
It also only weighs 10.000kg
This is a simply container, that allows nothing more then storage and simulates having tools to refit in space. So lets assume it can be compressed to 50m3, because 90+% of the container is full of “air” when deployed.
That is not the case with tethering, compression or manufacturing tech, all three would take substantial space and would be very hard to compress alot, for self assembly and deployment in space. So those three tech alone would take up hundreds of m3 space, if not thousands, in theory.
I like the idea alot! But if they are to small, they are simply to powerfull compared to current tech and they will be heavily favored by everyone.
Well to be used in the intended nomadic purpose…which was the niche I felt was being neglected it would need to be say 500m3 or less. Now I could see the cargo space lowered to compensate for the ability to fit them in 400-500m3. How small would the cargo need to be in your opinion to make that balance out? 1000m3…500m3? Also while I don’t really like the idea of fuel being required what if they took boosters to make their ability be active. Say a 400 would activate it for x seconds and a 800 would activate it for y seconds where y is larger than x. Considering the intent isn’t to have the tether/manufacture/compression run round the clock or allow anything close to the scale of the ability as their larger counterparts.
Take the tether for example as this is the one that most interests me. I would really only use it to rep my drones or to fix a bit of hull damage if I had a close fight with something. Not to park and go watch a movie while logged in. Therefore using an 800 or even maybe a 3200 to give me 30-60s of the ability would be all I needed. Every so often I would need to go grab some fuel but its something I could carry in a cruiser. Even think about the manufacture one it still needs materials to make boosters so I would need to bring those to make the boosters so I could power it to make ammo.
It could even open up new services for players to provide where people use BRs to ferry me said supplies for a cost so I didn’t have to make the dangerous trips in and out.
Cap Booster 3200 could be a valid option for fuel tbh. But the amount it would require would be substantial. It kinda needs to have an activation cost, and then running cost. Like the Upwell services, to prevent it being to good or the prefered choice for players.
If you want it that small, i think the bonuses should be heavily lowered. You can tether yes, but only at 3km range and at 1-10% of the repair speed of Upwell structures maybe and only for a limited time (cap boosters could be the option here, parhaps a small visual capacitor indicator could be shown somewhere. 5 cap boosters to online and then 1 per minute to keep it running maybe?)
I like the idea of having small stuctures like this, but they cannot be overpowered, compared to current tech abilities. It doesnt really matter what you think the module will be used for, eve players will use it for the opposite if it works for it. Its shown over and over throughout eve history, so its important to keep in mind how it WILL be used, not how it SHOULD be used.
For sure, I do agree in that I want it to be balanced. Its frustrating the amount of OP suggestions or poorly thought out ideas I see here just because it suits someone play style. I don’t quite agree with an online cost, but rather see it as a burst module. So maybe it costs like say 3 3200s for one use. That for tether could be like 60s or something…obviously numbers would need to be played with. Or for manufacture it would do 1 job where jobs would be limited somehow to only make consumables…honestly I think making a drone would be too much or the very limit of things I’d want to see it make. Compression should be 25% of or maybe even less than that of a rorq. Those like redfrog and pushx could open new wings specialized in running the boosters/materials in too as well as running ore out if so desired.
Theres something interesting there for sure!
Im not sure exactly how it would be “balanced”, but i do feel like we are talking at least 500-1000m3 volume and heavily reduced bonuses, for these bad boys… Forcing you to use cargo expanders to fly it out and then refit afterwards, risky you know hehe.
Somehow it needs to be good for day tripping and nomadic playstyles, but an Upwell structure should be prefered for most players.
Well for sure it would keep the launch for self only standard of mobile depots. And yes things like tether need to be like 2000m range tops. Maybe manufacture jobs take 200% longer than the slowest engineering complex or whatever and compression could be limited by compression amount so like 50% of the next best thing that compresses. Still makes it worth using for say an endurance or even a lowly venture. I could see a happy medium of 750ish m3 for size so that it would require a fit specifically to bring it out. I just don’t think it would see much use if it required an industrial to get it where its going as that would be a ton of travel and ship swapping to really make it worth while. Thanks for your input as you have highlighted some things I didn’t think about when initially conceiving this idea.
To prevent spamming, don’t allow them to anchor to any grid that already has any structure of any kind anchored to it, i.e. stargates and npc stations, or gravitationally bound objects, i.e. asteroids, moons, planets, and suns. They would have to be anchored to grids created specifically for them by bookmarking empty safespots.