T2 projectile ammo

[Jim_Restone]

I was wondering if the people at ccp where planning anything for t2 projectile ammo buffs in the future? The ammo just simply cannot apply well enough to any ships in 99% of situations as well as it limits the versatility of damage typed that autocannons have to explosive, kinetic.

Barrage ammo still is not worth the falloff change for the reduced tracking and a incredibly mildly changed optimal so it applys just as poorly as close range t1 ammo.

And hail forces you to orbit a target at close range but with the reduced tracking it just simply applys poorly to targets.

I was wondering ccp had anything in the works or plan to work on somthing in the future if you could us know that would be great.

[ISD_Lord_Arranoth]

Moved from Out of Pod to Player Features & Ideas

[Daichi_Yamato]

Don’t have the same problems as you’re facing. A rifter gets half decent dps out to ~20km with barrage. That’s frankly awesome.

And i thought hail was for hitting larger targets when you get under the guns or brawling down a weaker foe faster. You probably shouldn’t be using hail against a similar sized target if you need to orbit.

[elitatwo]

If you don’t fly a logi cruiser, you should never even look at the “orbit” button.
Just forget that there is such a thing and adjust your heading. Your tracking will become much better.

[Archer_en_Tilavine]

@Jim_Restone

The ammo just simply cannot apply well enough to any ships in 99% of situations

T2 ammo is not supposed to perform well in most situations, it’s supposed to perform well in niche situations. It is specifically designed so that non-faction T1 ammo will outperform T2 ammo in most situations unless certain conditions are met, such as when the enemy is webbed or painted (or out of range as in the case of javelin missions, etc)

Longer range T1/Faction ammo could use some love to make it worth using alongside T2 long range ammo, however.

Boost T1/Faction Long Range Ammo Damage!

(The contents of post are in reference to T1/Faction hybrid/projectile ammo and frequency crystals only.) Right now, the status quo for turret ammo is that short-to-mid range ammo are used almost exclusively primarily because: they do enough damage, especially in relation to their range, to be worth using (whereas T1/Faction long range ammo is almost never worth using) for hybrid and energy turrets, mid range ammo is more cap efficient (this is somewhat true of long range ammo, but not to the…

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Archer_en_Tilavine

T2 ammo is not supposed to perform well in most situations, it’s supposed to perform well in niche situations.

I agree with you on this, but, to be fair, projectile T2 ammo does seem relatively crappy when compared to other T2 ammos (i.e. void, scorch, and occult). Now, I’m not saying that any particular ammunitions need to be buffed or nerfed, I’m just saying that the T2 projectile ammos offer less advantage over their T1 counterparts than other T2 ammos often do.

BTW, I don’t have a source, but I know I once heard a dev say that balancing Minmitar ships was more difficult because of their alpha damage.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Shipwreck_Jones

Now, I’m not saying that any particular ammunitions need to be buffed or nerfed, I’m just saying that the T2 projectile ammos offer less advantage over their T1 counterparts than other T2 ammos often do.

Actually I made the pyfa graphs on the mach.

you go straight from going hail to barrage at 30km.
Same result for a vargur (without bastion)

What it shows is that faction ammo are overall better (close DPS to the best, and better tracking), but in specific case hail or barrage is better.

IMO this makes the AC projectile pretty balanced.

[Jim_Restone]

i see what you mean man i agree but on any other ship i just have a hard time seeing why t2 projectile ammo is better than t2 missles

[Jim_Restone]

Wow what a paragraph lol
yeah i agree man its just t2 missiles still do all 4 types of damage, use no cap, has a high damage bad application (equivalent to bad tracking good damage) and lower damage good application (equivalent to lower damage and a tracking buff) minmatar guns are locked into a worse tracking and explosive kinetic that takes away the versatility of projectile turrets in range and damage type thats just why i feel its not useful

[Jim_Restone]

which really shouldn’t be the case it should be the best and again like i said it locks in your tracking debuff and damage type and that takes away the all 4 damage type versatility and the tracking versatility

[Daichi_Yamato]

Its just situational.

If you can keep transversal down, say you’re managing to ‘keep at range’ whilst kiting or you’re chasing down a kiter, tracking won’t matter, in fact you may get good hits using barrage against smaller targets in such situations.

But velocity and sig radius still matters for rage missiles. Even at zero transversal and regardless of range.

[elitatwo]

@Jim_Restone

explosive kinetic

Phased plasma wanted to talk to you.

[Jim_Restone]

yeah this is about t2 ammo man

[Jim_Restone]

i guess but still javelin exists wheres the t2 good tracking projectile ammo

[Daichi_Yamato]

I think it’s called quake…or is it tremor…