And they won’t know about that ship either.
If it’s a T2 industrial ship, it’s going to cost more isk to buy than getting someone to red frog it.
Look at the DST prices.
still cheaper than an orca or a bowhead 
But not by any significant factor. And certainly not cheap enough for a ‘new player’ to be affording. It will cost far more than buying all their T1 ships again. Which again makes the point that it’s just not going to fill the (pretty non existent) gap that people are trying to force it into.
Re-read the thread title. He’s suggesting a T1 ship. Think Mammoth, not Mastodon.
And now bother reading the posts above mine who pointed out additional reasons why a T1 Hauler along the lines of a Mammoth shouldn’t be able to do this and that it should instead be a T2, and reread my replies in context
Get an Orca. /thread
edit: what the OP is asking for is to mash what is effectively a CAPITAL ship attribute on a subcapital. And frankly, unless you’ve got stupid expensive rigs on the ship, or you really want to preserve the killmarks on it, it’s a simple matter to REPACKAGE THE DAMN THING in order to cram it into an ittyV. OR check where you’re shifting to and find out if you can buy those ships again there. You can? Strip the fit off what you have now and sell them on the market. Transport fit, replace ship, proceed with shooting red dots.
Well maybe you entered the game back in the day already with having ISK-efficiency in mind and you early-on knew how to min-max your efforts, so unrigging was a good option for you. Although I can’t prove it, I doubt the majority of new players are having entry-level experiences like this. Plus, it might still not be the best option, if you are quicker hauling your own stuff than making the ISK and going to the next market to replace it. That being said and how others mentioned too, the notion of your ships being your ships is something I guess is strong amongst new players. I even know a bunch of older players who are still proud when they acquire/build/earn a new ship for themselves. We should support that, there is nothing wrong with it, despite the fact that for others the hulls are just replaceable items without any enthusiasm about them.
No, I didnt. I just didnt have much in the way of overzealous attachment to my ships if I had to move. In all honesty, there’s no reason to cater to the “I want to take THIS ship with me” crowd by giving them yet another ship to use to transport them. Anything big enough to transport fully assembled ships is going to be slow aligning, slow warping, etc. Basically no different than what the orca is. Almost to the point it’s going to be faster to A, move them individually because almost everything can warp faster than an orca and B, sell it in whatever’s the closest market/mission hub and rebuy it in jita.
Remember the #1 rule of eve?
I did read them, noted that they were off-topic, and tried politely to steer everyone back to a T1 SMB hauler.
A T2 version would totally defeat the proposed purpose, which is newbie relocations.
If you want to discuss a T2 SMB hauler, make your own thread.
You twist and turn so hard, it’s funny. First of, yes, a DST/BR is significantly cheaper than an Orca or Bowhead. True though, not really affordable for a new player. That’s why they need to be T1. The only valid argument (in my eyes) against T1 is the danger of being ganked. So let’s get into that for a moment:
Ganking in new player systems falls under rookie griefing and is declared an exploit. Now if new players want to move away from these systems, they can of course be ganked like everyone else. Maybe there should be some mentioning of ganking within the NPE (if there isn’t already, I didn’t play it through). Some of you seem to heavily care wether or not new players are being ganked - ok, but this is already happening to them once they start mining, once they use other T1 industrials or once they start running missions. Is there a greater danger to be ganked when flying a SMB T1 Industrial? Maybe so, but not by a great margin. There are thousands of T1 industrials passing through Highsec every day with cargo worth enough to make them worthwhile gank targets and how many of these are really ‘done’?
As far as your killboard is able to tell a story it would say you lost two ships in 2009 and left the game, came back in 2013 until you’d been ganked while mining then left again. Looks like what you chose to call “overzealous attachment” to me.
Because you say so or because there are any good reasons to not support this crowd? The entire entry level experience is tailored around getting to know and love your ships. Feeling attached to it because you had to work hard to get it is not wrong, on the contrary.
As it was mentioned before by @Dom_Arkaral the Orca can do a lot more than just hauling ships. A T1 SMB Industrial should have around the align-time and 3AU Warp Speed of an Iteron/Mammoth.
You know how far Jita is from many systems new player might want to move in? Saying that selling to market orders at smaller hubs would require decent market buy orders there. Just move around a bit and find out that this is not the case. They’d have to move to any larger hub to not sell for a complete loss. If said larger hub is 15 jumps away, how is this even a better option than hauling your ships from A to B in the first place? Plus, you suggest to re-buy in Jita, which could be far away again.
People commonly say it is “Don’t undock in something you can’t afford to lose”. What does it have to do with the topic or any of the arguments? This thread was never about making things more safe for anyone, nor more unsafe, just less of a useless, de-motivating and soul crushing grind for new players.
A T1 hauler capable of hauling cruisers is not going to be cruiser sized or normal hauler sized therefore is not going to go at Cruiser speeds. For some maths as to why. Orca’s hold about 600k all up. 400k in the SMA, 150k ore hold and 30k cargo. Now obviously ore hold & cargo hold are actually more efficient than SMA’s for size because shape of ship etc. But lets overlook that. So you are asking for a ship with at least 50% of the volume of an Orca. If we assume everything scales perfectly this means a ship with 80% of the dimensions of an Orca. (1 over Cube root of 2 for the ratio.)
There also goes your ‘affordable’ option, since it’s going to cost proportionally to that since an Orca is a T1 ship as well. And it’s larger than a BS which means it’s going to warp at best like a BS.
Which yet again, means the niche of ‘new player’ you are trying to tout this as intended for simply isn’t an existing niche.
Yeah. Ok.
By all means - give PVE-ers a SMA hauler. Cheap. And fast. Sure.
Oh and btw, would you mind terribly giving dedicated haulers a freighter-sized hull that will clear lvl3-lvl4s by simply warping into mission and, like, make them red crosses 'splode? Because reasons?
Yes? Great! okthnxbai.
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Your argument holds no water at all. I honestly don’t know if you’re just trolling at this point. How can you draw a comparison in cost with an Orca?!
The Orca has massive utility and versatility: its SMA is a tiny fraction of its capabilities. It hauls several dedicated ore-haulers worth of ore, has a large cargo of its own (not so much if fit properly) boosts the shields and mining lasers of fleetmembers, has excellent bonused drones, surveys entire belts, and tanks like a beast.
The proposed ship just moves some smaller fitted ships around, while being affordable by newbs and with a reasonable speed and tank balance. It would not step on the toes of any other ships.
I’m guessing you maybe joined a friend already in game and so fast-tracked to an alliance or corp that set you up logistics-wise? Maybe you’ve forgotten the nomadic life of an agent-hopping newb, and the tedious back and forth journeys? Random storyline missions asking for fast hauling, heavy hauling or even mining. You need several ships knocking about.
You seem to think there’s no niche for this to fill, but I remember missioning, and there is.
That’s not an argument. Grow up ffs
Of course it is! It’s in the same sanity ballpark as this proposal. There are multiple ways to achieve what this proposal is asking for.
Hauling services.
Orca.
Freighters.
Bowhead.
Relocate by ones-self.
Relocate via sell&buy-anew.
Do you know how long we yapped on for that Bowhead?
The last diversification of T1 industrials were…lackluster. Why adding another layer of niche will not make it any better. I mean…I want a battlesip-sized, dedicated gas sucking/compressing/processing monster. Can I get that?
You can carry several packaged ships up to cruiser size in a T1 hauler. You lose the rigs but T1 rigs tend to be cheap - at least compared to some of the options under discussion!
Orca is a 3 week train (balanced attributes, no implants) and currently sells in the 700 million range. Incredibly useful ship. Use it to run missions if you have decent drone skills!
A Cruiser, frigate and venture would be 15000 m3 packaged. That won’t fit in a fast hauler, and would require an expanded wet paper bag such as an expanded Iteron V. That’s terrible advice for newbs. And 700 million plus orca training takes a lot of time and level 1 to 3s…
At the moment my advice would be to haul ammo, crap, cheap mods etc together with packaged frigate and Venture in the hauler, then go back and bring valuables in the cruiser.
After that though, moving involves more and heavier ships, and sucks.
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Fair enough, Orca is a 3 week train, but that doesn’t account for any support skills. Is losing a 700M ship (which new players have a hard time to pay for) to a gank better than a T1 Industrial? Yeah it is useful, but like @Cristl said its SMB is only a tiny part of its use. A transport ship that could easily be worth 10-20 times of its T1 cargo isn’t really a solution for the nomadic new player. Also a 3 week investment in Training time is pretty long for a new player, as it requires you to stop any other progression through Skills during which is maybe the time you decide to stay or go.
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