Before xmas I posted scanner probe comparison table to the wormhole section of the Eve-o forum. I got several complaints saying that probes affect other areas of Eve, not just wormholes. Fair enough.
I’ll post the most important part of the table here with conclusions and link the original table in the wormhole forum: Satori-Horigu the best probe in New Eden
First, the probe strength from 0.25 AU is mostly totally irrelevant. Note that this is the strength that you see if you open “show info” for any Core Probe. Thus the strength from 0.5 AU probing range is the real deal. Here goes, probe strength scaled to match Sisters Combat Scanner probe to be 100:
Sisters Core Scanner Probe - strength 100 - note that the warp speed of any core probe is so weak that you should use Sisters Combats in nearly all cases instead because the strength increase of RSS probe is so tiny.
Combat Scanner Probe I - strength 90.91 - critically weaker, not worth using ever since Sisters probes are cheap enough.
Core Scanner Probe I - strength 90.91 - critically weaker, not worth using ever since Sisters probes are cheap enough.
The conclusion is easy:
Satori-Horigu Combat Scanner Probe is the undistuputed king of probes. Nothing comes even close. The downside is the 10 minute duration and partially the price, but it’s still considerably cheaper than the RSS Core Scanner Probe (at least at the time of writing this).
RSS Core Scanner Probe is slightly stronger than the Sisters Combat Scanner Probe, but it warps slowly. Thus, in most cases Sisters Combat Scanner Probe is actually better. The 16 minute duration of RSS Probe doesn’t help either.
Sisters Core Scanner Probe is worth using only in the cases where your ship can’t fit an expanded probe launcher.
The T1 probes are not worth using in any case, other than trying to look like a newbie in d-scan.
Probably because for scanning signatures, the 0.25 AU range is never really nessessary (rare exceptions). Even with Sister’s Core Probes I begin with 8 AU, to get “points”, then 2 AU above the points and I have a 100% result for almost all of the low level signatures. If not, it’s probably a higher level signature, so I go down from 2 AU to 0.5 AU and again in the overwhelming majority of all cases thats more than enough. I don’t use 0.25 AU scans ever, it’s simply not needed when scanning with a rigged CovOps and Max Skills.
I can imagine it becomes useful when probing with a non-bonused / unrigged ship tho.
It really depends on what you’re scanning for, what ship and fit is used, what the skills and also how risky it all is. People putting super fancy stuff and a Zeugma on their Heron because someone told them “it’s the best” is an example of how silly things can get if someone starts to state things like the OP.
I’m sure that when hunting for Herons when using double cLokis (like OP) is safe enough to warrant special stuff but that doesn’t mean it applies to more or even most of the situations.
Are you saying that this comparison is silly? I don’t think so. All the numbers are openly there and everyone can check them. As every ship or item in EvE you should not undock anything you cannot afford to loose. So value of the item is relative.
Let me give some other examples of the strengh of the probes, maybe these examples are less abstract and easier to understand - base line being Sisters Probe.
RSS probe is less than 3% stronger than Sisters Core Probe. If you plug in 3% probe strength implant your probe strength is alrady more than what RSS probes brings - like I said that is small. I have also tested that in practice and I droped the RSS probes from my ship pretty quickly and went back to Sisters Combat Probes.
If you compare Satori-Horigu to Sisters Combat probe the difference in strength is almost same than 2 full levels in skill Astrometric Range Finding. So with that skill at lvl 3 you probe almost as well as guy who has it at lvl 5. I think that is significant boost from single item.
I have tested Satori-Horigus on toons with lvl 4 skills, lvl 5 skills and lvl 5 skills with virtue set and I like them alot. Strenght incrase is notable on all of those cases. I also started to think that maybe I could replace virtue set prober with only 5% hardwiers instead when using Satori-Horigus.
Everyone naturally decides their need, but I bet that within few months most high-class WH pipe probers have switch to Satori-Horigus (many of them use virtue implant set as well). If you do something alot then it is worth to use good equipment for it.
Also rememer the warp speed difference between combat and core probes…it may not seem big, but over many scans even that will accumulate.
I’m not doubting the numbers, they’re quite straightforward. The point is that you’re make sweeping statements from YOUR perspective and YOUR use to then state them as if they apply to any and all situations. A perspective, use and cost/benefit that most other players won’t have.
It is like many things in EvE the best stuff cost more. I would like to use Estamels Torpedo launchers in my bomber but I cannot justify the cost. It still does not change the fact that Estamels Torpedo laucher is the best. So your comments come from envy? I gave you facts and examples. Would you liked to use Satori-Horigus but you cannot afford them?
I agree that Satori-Horigu probes are too expensive for most alpha pilots, however like everything in EvE, there can be exceptions. Anyhow those alpha players should have good survival skills and practices.
To recap:
Satori-Horigu is the very best probe (strongest probe strength, best warp speed) in New Eden at the moment. Its major limitations are the 10 min duration and the price.
Sisters Combat Probe use this probe if you cannot justify the use of Satori-Horigus or you need probe overwatch for longer time.
Sisters Core Probe use this probe if you cannot fit expanded probe launcher or you need 0.25 AU scan range. The warp speed of core probes is slower than combats and you cannot see even Interdictors or anchored bubbles.
T1 Combat Scanner Probe Should not be used at all.
T1 Core Scanner Probe Should be used only if you want to give an impression that you are not a threat when you are hunting.
RSS core scanner probe This probe has been very niche option before and now it so clearly outclassed by Satori-Horigu that I expect its price to drop significanlty within next few months. In every situation that I could consider using RSS Probe Satori-Horigu is superior by big margin.
Which of the conclusions you disagree with and why? Lets have constuctive discusson on this matter.
I think the point Aisha is making is that the small strength increase of the new combat probe may not always be worth the loss of the ability to go down to 0.25 AU, so generalizing it as ‘the best probe’ is maybe not always true.
Going from 22 to 24 strength is a less than 10% increase.
Going from 0.5 AU to 0.25 AU is a 100% strength increase.
Unless the 0.25 AU scan is never needed for your gameplay I can see situations where this new combat probe isn’t the best scanner probe.
I think it’s an interesting idea to use these combat probes for faster speed and bigger scans even for non-combat probing, but I am not convinced yet that it’s always better. I do recall I need to use 0.25 AU scans from time to time.
Each site, ship etc has probing difficulty which is based on the signature size of the thing you are trying to find. Every wormhole, regular hacking site, gas site etc has probing difficulty level 1, 2 or 3. The Eve client will tell you the probing difficulty if you hover the mouse over the probing result in the probing window after you get past 25% result.
0.5 AU is enough for level 3 probing difficulty. Thus you can get “nearly everything” from 0.5 AU range. There are some very special sites that are lvl 4 and even lvl 5 difficulty. For those, most probers will need Core probes, but switching to them temporarily for one special site is trivial. Good example of harder probing difficulty would be the rare and special site Ancient Battlegrounds (or how the hell it’s actually spelled).
Okay, so you’re planning to swap probes when these probes cannot scan the sites.
Good to know, that wasn’t part of your initial post.
Still it can be nice to use probes that warp 50% faster with 10% stronger scans for the scans 0.5 AU and up, but it may require some fitting sacrifices for an expanded probe launcher.
Very unscientific estimate to put things into better perspective: in wormhole space you need 0.25 AU probing range (and thus Core probes) in about once every 500-1000 signatures you scan. Thus, use Combat probes always and carry a set of Cores just in case. Switching is as easy as switching different ammo type in a gun.
Curiously enough: lvl 4 probing difficulty seems to be more common both in high sec and in low sec. Odd. Probing in null sec is also a bit easier on average. Does anyone remember if any null sec signatures are either lvl 4 or lvl 5 probing difficulty?
Nah, you would lose too much time swapping. To fit an expanded probe launcher takes so much CPU that you’re going to lose warp speed, scan strength or agility in a regular T2 exploration fit and therefore lose some time or safety while probing. Speed is your income, and waiting a minute for your mobile depot to anchor every time you scan a new sig just isn’t worth it when you could have scanned the next two systems in that time instead.
There are three ways I can fit an expanded probe launcher on my Helios fit:
losing 3s align time by fitting a CPU low slot (not worth it - agility is not only speed but also safety),
losing warp speed and downgrading the gravity rig by fitting a CPU rig (not worth it, loss of strength negates almost all the bonus strength of these probes and I like that warp speed)
losing the 6th implant slot to a CPU implant, which means a whole lot of scan strength missed that no longer can be Virtue Omega.
Maybe I could consider a different ship, the Buzzard has more CPU.
My thougths as well. I only fit an Expanded Probe Launcher if I am really “on the hunt” for PvP targets. Else a Core II with Sister’s Core Probes is the way to go, simply because I can fit so much more conveniently.
The fact alone that I can fit
Gravity Rig II to boost my Scan Strength
AND
Hyperspatial Rig II to make my travels faster
AND
Acquisition Array II
Rangefinding Array II
Pinpointing Array II
AND
Nanofibers to burn out of bubbles/back to holes faster (even under cloak)
Inertias to warp out faster
Damage Control II to take an initial shot and still make it to the hole in case I spawn so close to anything that I can’t instantly cloak
AND
a Nullifier to ignore Bubbles on demand
Just for using a Core II instead of an Expanded Probe Launcher, even saving 30 Million for the Laucher alone plus… like 60 Million for the 8 Satori Probes? While still having more scan strength and no need to fit any implants (in a space where I lose my pod almost guaranteed if I am caught)
Easy choice.
I was comparing different probes. Not writing a probing guide :). For any useful comparison the strength has to be compared with the same range.
In cov ops, if you cannot get the sig to 100 % with combats from 0.5 AU: Recall probes → Uncloak → reload Sisters Core Probes → Lauch probes → Start reloading combat probes → Cloak → reduce range to 0.25 → Analyze. Note that probe pattern and location is remembered by client so you don’t need redo them. This is pretty trivial task to execute.
