You are talking about this? I don’t see were I got anything wrong. CCP has been changing core aspects of the game for years and still is changing them to appeal to the wrong kind of players who don’t understand eve. What CCP is doing is verbatim to what happened to swg. You could argue that it’s not as bad yet (with which I would disagree) but CCP is not done yet. They are in full attack mode with their salami tactics. But as usual you don’t want to see that despite the tons of examples provided (and I forgot a number of more things, like abyss pvp and abyss PvE, special rules for event sites etc.)
And this? Eve is not spoon feeding you to level 10? Good, that costs you tons of RL cash because of CCP’s predatory SP packs.
We are maybe looking through eve mechanics through old eyes but what you described is literally telling that eve is changing core aspects fundamentally to appeal to them. If you accustom them to an easier entry into the game, they get the wrong ideas and expectations and simply expect more of that. That’s how these new generation’s “radically different expectations” work out. Examples for this? Special rules against abyss pvp interference, special rules in event sites, hard number lock in ess sites, abyss PvE save from interference, etc.
That said, explaining things and procedures better is not the same as giving them safe areas for PvE and PvP to emulate other games just to appeas them.
No, what I was talking about was the idea that we were sitting on the precipice of some kind of NGE style changes to EVE. That’s not about to happen, and has never happened in the game. All the changes we’ve seen have been incremental, for the most part, with the end result that the game that launched in 2003 - a dystopian sandbox spaceships game where loss matters and everyone’s playing together on a single server - still exists.
The “core” changes you listed aren’t changes to the fundamentals of EVE. The NGE was. If CCP took space combat in EVE and turned it into something out of Elite Dangerous or Star Citizen, then you could claim they made a fundamental change to the game that was on the same par as the NGE. That has never happened here.
The rest are small parts of a huge game, the core of which is still the same. If Abyssal PvP or PvE became the ONLY combat system in the game, you’d have an argument.
That’s naive to say ana misrepresentative of the general direction that CCP is taking with their development practices. Every small step contributes to warping the game into something that it’s not. You can now PvP and PvE without interference from outsiders and earn ridiculous amounts of ISK even though CCP used to claim that especially this outside influence was elementary for emergent experiences.
It’s also dangerous to claim that only one big change counts towards fundamental changes. A myriad of small changes changes the game into something else just as badly as one big sweeping change.
It’s not a misrepresentation nor is it naive. The base of the game, the fundamentals of the game, remain the same as they have always been and those aren’t going to change. We can argue whether round headlights or square headlights look better on a car, but they don’t fundamentally change a car into a horse or a truck, which is what a “core” change would look like.
The context of the conversation, again, was the SWG NGE and that WAS a massive overnight fundamental change to the entire nature of what the game was. It went from a sandbox traditional turn based combat MMO into a first person shooter theme park MMO. It was the equivalent of them taking football in Madden 22 and turning it into curling. That’s not going to happen to EVE.
That’s not the case at all. CCP is trying to convince us that driving without headlights is a good thing because it’s cooler while they did not tell you that they replaced the lights with dysfunctional props. That’s one core aspect of the car changed (instances). And then they changed the tyres for bricks because they needed them for poorly designed floaters (special rules for more and more aspects of the game). And then they replaced the windows with plastic sheet because they are lighter (structures, caps in old PvE). Technically, this still counts as a car but it’s not really functional any longer.
You have to give it to them that they approach this transformation more deviously in thinner Salami slices.
I would argue that Eve is no longer a “True Sandbox”, aka, CCP now molds the sand and players play by CCP’s rules upon entering their castle/realm, and CCP says “Don’t like it, just quit!” to everyone who enters.
So from Sandbox → Sandpark
Granted not occurring overnight yet I bet still turns thousands of players’ ( and ex-players’) investment of time/effort into some form of mostly disappointments.
mymy so many angry muffins
Hands up, who thinks accusing the other side of engaging in bad faith arguments and having a “secret agenda” helps convincing them of the merits of your point? Opposed to laying down your reasoning and seeing what flaws others find in it, then adressing those?
Oh so many, well explains the constant namecalling, moving of goalposts and misrepresentation of arguments to include the last supper and the time when the oceans drank atlantis ;D
The game is still here, it’s still the same kind of game that it was when it came out. It has been refined, updated, changed and made better over time. Yes, there have been some ■■■■ ups, yes there have been somethings added and some things removed that were things folks liked, but overall, the game is still the same as it was in 2003 in a way that SWG after the NGE was not, which is, I must stress again, the point of the conversation I was having.
Yes, they said that. Yes, they changed their minds.
There is plenty of emergent gameplay still going on, and there’s plenty of gameplay that has nothing to do with anything CCP has added to the game for people to do. This is still, at it’s heart, a sandbox game where the players decide what the content is and go do that.
Honestly, I don’t know why you guys even post here any more. If the game is so bad and you hate what it’s become so much, then it’s time to move on. You’re not helping anybody here by running down the game, and your feedback isn’t constructive.
No there really isn’t, there is “some” not plenty.
Simple answer. Someone needs to.
All feedback is constructive, good or bad. Even the “feedback” saying the game is ok and that the game is still the same as it was in 2003.
It isn’t even the same as it was in 2014 and has declined a great deal since 2015.
The car that u described is still there overall as well, but it’s not the car anymore that you bought and it’s not the car anymore that it was advertised as. You can stress whatever you want. The point remains that CCP has been making changes to the game that fundamentally changed it in bad ways and no intentionally limiting the perspective on a specific type of fundamental game change to suit your narrative makes this gi away.
Yes, eve is still there overall and if you look very favorably at its state but CCP is working very hard at chipping away from the aspects that make eve what it is supposed to be.
I was speaking objectively. Folks can say they don’t like X mechanic, or Y mechanic was better in the past, but from a purely objective standpoint, the game looks better than it ever has, it performs better than it ever has, it is possible to do things on a scale that was never possible in the past, and a lot of the tedium, annoying bugs, and unnecessary complexity has been fixed. All of that makes for an objectively better game. I don’t think anybody can really argue against that unless they are going out of their way to hate on the game.
I was interested so had a peek back at your post history (hey, it’s a slow work day).
I’m interested in what you think are the small parts of the game that got taken away? I saw the usual list of concerns - Citadels, instanced content, etc. But I think there’s more to it, so keen to learn.
I’m not sure I get what you’re saying about loss only mattering to those who don’t have trillions of isk though… What’s the solve here? Delete people’s isk from 2 decades of gameplay? Unless you’re going directly after people’s wallets, I’m assuming you’re down with the scarcity / industry / taxation changes so far this year?
As for players only playing 'how CCP wants them to" - this is far more a factor of players being risk-averse, and being willing to pay over the odds for certain items on the open market. Personally, I’ve never enjoyed abyssal PvE so I’ve not engaged in it that much. Simpler, quicker and about as effective to drop out a few Ishtars than deal with the expense and faff of high-tier abyssals. These new capital anomalies should help swing that balance also. The abyssal PvP has such a small impact, I’m not overly concerned one way or another.
Selling SP directly… yeah, it’s not a good look but it doesn’t have an impact beyond removing a step in the process. You can even work around the RP ‘all skill points are earned in game’ bit if you have the sales returning biomassed / banned accounts. And I can’t really complain about injectors in general, as after a 6 year break I jabbed a ton of those bad boys. Is there something to be done about cooling down their effect in game? Yeah, though without a practical solution that doesn’t entirely gum up the works for those who have built their gameplay around them also, I doubt it’s a genie that’s going back in it’s bottle any time soon.
That’s not what I said. I said, objectively, the game is better now than it was in the past. Sure, plenty of folks may have enjoyed it before and don’t now, but there’s a lot more that goes into whether someone’s enjoying the game than just what CCP is doing or has done.
And no, none of those things are subjective. A 64 bit client is superior to a 32 bit client. Servers that can handle a 6000+ person fight are superior to those that couldn’t. The current graphics are superior to what we had ten years ago. I honestly don’t know how anybody can argue this isn’t true.
I dont understand how anyone can call the continuing removal of player agency, the continual removal of emergent professions viability, the introduction of cores, the blantant either lack of a reason for changes or basic lying by CCP and say the game is better for it but here we are.
You big me small, so it ofc looks better for you.
Its not really a puzzlement.
In regards to all the tech stuff; thats the engine, not the game in its entirity but sure, lets go with because pixels are sharper and you and your lot have your big battles then the whole game is better.
Years and Years ago, before forums, before internet, we had games where what we played was the developers vision and that was it… even if we thought " if we could do this, or this, it would be better" but no we were stuck with the devs vision.
now, we have games where we can give input to the devs in how we’d like the game, and if the devs do something that they wanna do, ■■■■ all lets riot… goddamn the ■■■■■■■ negative nancies throwing a fit cause CCP does something to THEIR ■■■■■■■ GAME.