No, that Server is not better. It only allows more people to experience the same crap show. This is not better in any way objectively. What would be better is this server paired with mechanics that improve the mechanics to actually enable the higher server performance to provide tidi and lag freer experiences.
But thanks to people like you who claim that the same madness of the last 2 decades just in ever bigger dimensions counts as “better” we will not ever experience actually enjoyable huge battles.
I bet that only once Guinness book of world records refuses a player record from such a battle that we will only then see changes to this madness.
What’s your issue? Either you say that you want feedback (and CCP never tires to claim how important our feedback is to them) and you get that feedback, or you say that you don’t want feedback and do what you want. What CCP does, however, is asking for feedback and then ignoring it. Examples listed in my above posts. And the most hilarious thing with CCP is their Pikachu face when things go south as predicted by players. So, maybe you naive summer children can stop taking mind altering drugs before you comment and screech at people who actually want to see a better game.
You guys are really impossible. The server can handle more people playing at the same time, but it’s not “better.” Ok.
I mean, I don’t know why I even bother engaging when you all are so deep in the “everything sucks” mentality that you can’t even acknowledge that the game performing better for more people is a good thing.
To be fair he kind of has a point about tidi. You can’t polish a turd but you can throw glitter on it to make it look pretty. Tidi with more people is like a glittery turd, but at the end of the day it’s still a turd.
I just wish this thread was relevent to the title though, it’s worse than Reddit for moaning grown ups
I seriously question how many people complaining about 6k+ pilots in system - TiDi or no - can clearly remember the days before it was introduced. I certainly do, it was crap. You’d get things lagging out at something like 200 in system, and worse if you got a bad node. These days you can have fights with up to 1000 in system before any TiDi even winds in. If that’s not an objective improvement, I don’t know what would be.
This is why it’s important (to me, anyway) to push back on some of the more hyperbolic negativity - it simply ignores the good things that have been done in some weird hate-fetish way that really doesn’t bear comparison to reality. It’s not healthy - for those that engage in it, for the community as a whole, or for the game itself - and worse, it means any valid points raised are far more easily brushed aside as ramblings of madmen.
While I agree Scofio that a lot of this is highly tangenital to the topic at hand, it’s kind of important to raise these points in a thread where people have been kicking off about literal free money, or complaining that the tie-in surprise tax reduction wasn’t trialled in advance. It’s absurd.
I completely agree, I’m just sick and tired of scrolling through this thread hoping to see some relevant information to the topic and not seeing any. How we’ve got on to tidi is beyond me and any off topic conversation should simply be moved or removed.
Surely the conversation could be taken to a general thread somewhere is all I’m getting at.
Brisc derailed it as usual, by dismissing a complaint about content quality and scope with a true but irrelevant argument about content performance and visualization. Typical politician, counter arguments and questions by addressing a different subject in the answer.
Technically the 5th post in by Destiny Corrupted derailed it by making unfounded accusations regarding CCP’s intentions. From then on the entire thread has been hijacked.
Because it is not performing better for more people. Just before the sudden end of this war during the Papi announcement, all of delve and parts of querious succumbed to tidi and lag while a mere 6000 chars were spread out throughout the entire regions. This. Is. Not. Better. This is the same crap from a decade ago just for more people to experience.
CCP has acknowledged on multiple occasions that they cannot outrace our drive to push the technological server limits beyond the breaking point. But instead of acting on that realization and changing and introducing new mechanics to spread the player load away from one grid into multiple systems (which you could put on Rf’d nodes to improve performance) CCP keeps pushing for single grid engagements that the server cannot handle and most likely never will be able to until we get quantum servers. This is all I am asking. All I want is a better gameplay experience for everyone and not wars going into stalemate for weeks simply because you cannot get into a system as this would kill the server.
But people like Brisk or Geo who keep insisting on that we are doing just fine prevent that from starting to becomes reality. Why do I even continue to engage with blockheads who don’t acknowledge that.
Are you talking about rattati and psych? If so, I wholeheartedly agree.
Agreeing that quite a portion the last 10 or so posts were driving the thread off topic further…
Look, the truth is even when IT industry is struggling to keep up with Moore’s Law ( As in Science / Technology, not Society / Governmental ), the ability to use more powerful computing equipment and keep the software up to date to utilize them are the reason that games/software can do more, and be more beautiful, create more realistic, visual appeasing themes. It has nothing to do with quality of the GAME itself, and nothing to the with the FUNDAMENTAL gameplay itself.
Most importantly, back in the olden days in the early 2000, the chipmakers already stressed that their products are powerful, but software developers are unable to keep up with the pace because to do so, requires partial / full re-write of programs so they can take advantage of say, new instruction sets … etc.
I’m not a programmer, but I’m almost fairly certain that majority of Eve’s (server) code where the core gameplay mechanics that relies upon those codes has been pretty much outdated, and hence, not optimized. The core code must be hard to scale so a band-aid solution such as TiDi (for which I have no first hand experience of) has been poorly received by the same few posts above explained. (something with 8 year old glitter?)
It has gotten to the point that even a simple graphical texture mapping bugs introduced since this patch cycle (19.06) is too hard to address 1 month after the patch deployed. Talking about “Needle in Hay” or simply incompetence by human individuals or just OOOOLDDD MESSY CODE??
So to the arguments that Eve is better now than Eve 10 years ago, objectively is probably false. As you factor in the hardware involved, and in relevance on how the codes are optimized to improve gameplay experience, the performance of the code would most likely fall off far behind the pace the technology has advanced.
It’s probably best to put the things and improvements that are more affected by factors attributed to technology advance and has virtually nothing to do with gameplay fundamentals (I interpret as “How the game is played”?) aside. It’s now like: I drive a Corolla, and you drive a Tesla, I’m in control of my car as long as I keep every components looked after, you are not, Skynet will get you one day when Musk flicks the switch.
Other than that, I enjoyed reading above that though, hoping to hear more arguments and counter-arguments regarding “fundamentals” of Eve and whether it has changed or not, I hardly think it’s one sided meaningless moaning/hatred, but I doubt the people who should listen are listening, maybe they are, but they are not until proven otherwise, even just some more frequent “devpost” in CCP’s own official Eve forum could lift “concerned” players’ confidence higher…
I thought that post was totally relevant, @Destiny_Corrupted stated the fact that free ISK are tied behind omega subscription and people are concerned and especially when CCP publicly posted seeking to fill a new “Monetization Designer” position on Twitter.
Players were concerned that this may become a more frequent thing and new strategy employed by CCP which then can possibly affect the way they thought Eve was and the way they play or be forced to play. This is exactly what @Brisc_Rubal referred to as “Fundamentals of Eve” termed later and has been pretty much the discussion for the past week.
Then instead of talking about fundamental gameplay mechanic changes or developmental outlooks (subject to NDA) that positively/negatively affects Eve and its players, it was non-other than himself brought up how technology plays major role of improving the Fundamentals of Eve or even keeping it in shape (which I argued otherwise in my post above) and is Objectively Better Universe than…Ever!
Then here comes a few comments some might be self-contradicting, some washing hands clean:
Here implies Omega accounts are not new players, and this Free ISK is meant for undoing the Scarcity Fatigue.
I agree, and even to the extend that @Snowflake_Tem wanted, a good story, not just ANY RAT, make it so that the rat don’t sit in a pocket, but maybe 100km from celestials, no bounty for the rat but when you killed it, gives you credit and to be eligible for the ISK. GIve the rat some names like “SCC Fugitive FN-2187”…blah blah blah…and there, insta more immersion, gets people to undock, potential conflict…etc! That would make it totally not look like Scarcity Fatigue Allowance for Omega Accounts?
Then…in the same post:
Almost turns and said the allowance is for New Players (on condition of subscribing Omega) because Eve is hard and harsh…and onto spoon-feeding. Which I really disagree, because it throws that nice famous “Eve Learning Curve” totally out of picture since a few years ago and not because just this ISK airdrop. It arguably has any “True New Player Retention Bonus” effect because back when I started as a new player, it was a sense of achievement every step, every 10k, 100k, 1mil I made, every ship, frigate, destroyer, cruiser I could afford. Losing my first shitfit frigate to a SB wartarget, 1 shot blapped me. It WAS SOMETHING!!
You had to do every mission for the career agents to get rewarded, not just log in and claim 10k, 100k, free frigate crate, free dessie crate like now?? The term Harsh is a joke!
Then:
I agree with @Tipa_Riot and that’s why I said the statements from Brisc are almost self-contradicting.
and of course…from this point on, @Brisc_Rubal brings up the latest topic of “Fundamentals of Eve” has not changed (with assurance to @Verlyn) and it’s where it leads us to current point in the thread where players were arguing more gameplay changes to this Fundamentals, and Brisc mainly focused on Technological aspects.
Better for who?
Pretty sure the thousands who’ve stopped logging in over the last couple of years don’t see it as “better”.
Which server would that be?
Certainly not CCP’s
M2 clearly showed you can’t cram 6,000 players into a system that is lucky to handle 1,000 without TIDI and the risk of server crash.
No I’m not in Test or any affiliated alliance
Of course they are subjective. What’s ok or good for one isn’t always the same for others.
That may be but what CCP does has a huge affect when what they do removes players options to play the game as they choose.
They are but how many play the game to look at the scenery? Most people I know play in potato mode.
If CCP put half the effort into actual development as they did making “pretty”, Eve would be awesome.
That makes about as much sense as Brisc saying none of the changes in the last 6 years are subjective.
But hey, I played the odd Dos game over the years. Also played D&D via IRC when dialup was all there was
I did not want them to give away free isk. They did it anyway. Even though they did it, I don’t believe that it’s going to break the game. It was popular, however, so the folks complaining about it here are in the minority, and it’s likely they’re probably do it again. If they do, I will continue to repeat it’s a bad idea.
The money wasn’t designed for new players, or else it wouldn’t have been gated behind Omega. That being said, a newer Omega player is going to have greater utility for that isk than someone who already has money. How long someone stays a “new player” in EVE is a constant debate. I felt the money was a thank you for everybody sticking around through scarcity, where money making has been harder.
The game is still harsh, even if this provided a bit of a cushion.
My conversation with Verlyn was about his fear that we’re going down the same road SOE did with SWG, and I don’t believe that’s the case. And I made the argument, which I stand by, that the game is in a better place for most players than it has ever been. I talk to countless veterans who agree with that statement, even if they miss aspects of the game that existed years ago.
Again, if you guys think that the servers aren’t performing better now than they have in the past, you should probably actually log in instead of just complaining on the forums.
Then don’t talk about M2 like you were there. I was there for both fights. The first fight broke the then Guinness Record and the servers worked exactly as they should have. The second fight we tried to double the number we had in the first fight, and that’s why things went the way they did.
You need to talk to more people or maybe watch some streams.
I didn’t say the changes CCP has made were objectively better. I said the game itself is objectively better, and I pointed out why, based largely on technological and art improvements. It’s hard to have a conversation when you aren’t actually reading what I write and just emoting based on what you think I said.
The server broke, clients were unresponsive, modules and ships did not respond to inputs, inputs took ages to go through if at all. If this is working as intended or counts as better, you are out of your mind.
The experience was hideous. It is a farce that this madness was allowed to be included into the gbowr. This record glosses over all the issues that happened during this fight, during YZ9, and many other similar situations.
And exactly this limited perspective ignores all the aspects that counteract these improvements. Ever more server power do not help improving the experience if things like the above Delve/Querious tidilagfest happen or server performance preventing the attack of systems. Ever better graphics don’t help if the Jita hangar makes my gfx card go into Apache helicopter mode or PvE in environments with clouds lag out other apps on my PC or if I have to use Ctrl alt shift f9 in big fights.
As long as you keep saying ridiculous stuff like that, CCP won’t start making eve actually better.
There are many pretty and well performing games out there, who offer uninteresting gameplay. You know how this sounds? Like a salesman who wants to sell a used car and talks about the nice paint job to distract from the rotten interior.
But even whether you like the paint or not is subjective … for example I still hate the monochrome icons.
You brought this up to dismiss complains about core mechanics and policies changing, which is still objectively true. To make it clear sandbox, single shard and emergent gameplay are the core pillars to me, which were severely weakened over last years.
