The more 3rd party tools that are integrated the more new players will stay

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

Copying my responses from the other thread for those who only see this one:

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

Okay, you are making a significant logical leap from ‘players do not know about tools’ to ‘if players knew about the tools from day 1, they would be more likely to stay’. The tools being in-game might make a difference for a tiny percentage of players who would otherwise leave - but most players who leave do so because EVE wasn’t the game for them in the first place.

Again, simply putting the tools in the game doesn’t make them more functionally usable to players - not only do you have to find them in the already large menu of tools, you also have to explain what the tool is and how to use it (and can I tell you how many vets I have spoken to who didn’t know about the Compare tool and how to use it?). Unless each and every tool is given an in-game tutorial, the tools are just as inaccessible to a new player in-game as via a third party site. The only argument for in-game is not having to open up a website or app separate from EVE to run them - but that is countered by app developers not being locked into CCP’s development cycle and thus being free to iterate on their work as needed instead of only when CCP budgets for QoL improvements.

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

@Tl-lOR_Gods

So for new players, not having easy access to 20-40% of the total gameplay experience is of course going to make a lot of them leave.

Except putting the tools in the game doesn’t make them easier to use - it only maybe makes them more likely to be stumbled upon. The number one way to improve the new player retention rate among those who are actually interested in EVE is to improve the NPE itself and do a better job of explaining core game mechanics, followed closely by do a better job connecting players socially to others who are interested in helping them learn and grow in EVE.

Neither of those requires moving the tools inside of EVE - both are focused on improving communication of information to new players. Whether the tools are inside the game or not is irrelevant to disclosing the existence of supportive content and helping new players engage with it.

@Tl-lOR_Gods

I’m not talking about ease of use.

I am talking about ease of access. In my experience, the vast majority of new players never get to experience these 3rd party tools because they leave before they get a chance to.

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

Except simply accessing a tool doesn’t improve anyone’s gameplay experience. Okay, so there is a menu item for viewing killmails - what does it do? Why is it relevant? How do you use it, and what are the pros and cons of its data set? Also, how do players control whether their killmails are accessible to others? Does it opt in by default, or is it locked down and you have to edit permissions to make your killmails accessible?

How does having it in-game answer any of those questions, or help a player use it?

Once you put the tools inside the game, CCP has to maintain them, create and maintain instruction materials for them, and update them alongside all the other code maintenance that goes into every release. Whereas when they are out of the game, not only can they not possibly break other components of EVE, they can be independently updated and improved upon without waiting for CCP to decide to spend money on a tiny aspect of their game engine. Just look at the fitting tool that is already in EVE - it’s 4 years old and has been hardly touched.

I would much rather the tools remain outside EVE where they can continue to be developed, than get shoehorned into EVE and left to languish.

But I do agree that the existence of useful out-of-game content needs to be better promoted during the NPE - including these forums, which tons of players are utterly unaware of.