TTT was just destroyed and you’re scratching your head trying to figure out the importance of market trading in Eve?
Remind me again, why exactly was the TTT destroyed? And who destroyed it? Was it traders?
I have never said that the market, or trading, is not important. To the contrary. It is a very important aspect of the game. But I think that sitting in a station betting on margins can also produce a warped sense of EVE online. Especially when you don’t take the time to experience the other aspects of the game. You become blind to what really keeps this game alive. Players. Not just players sitting in stations, but players undocked and interacting within the game. THAT is what keeps EVE online alive, and that is precisely what OZ lacks. That experience out in the game.
Doesnt matter if Oz is knowledgeable about the entire game or not. Can you name someone who is? Having SMEs for one or two small but very significant parts of EVE is better than someone who claims to be an “eve expert” when they are a dunce.
The problem that you’re having is that your narrow definition of what it means to participate in the game has led you to an incorrect hypothesis. The false assumption that you need to undock to play EVE. That you need to PVP or PVE to be taken seriously is false. What makes Eve great is that you can spend your entire EVE career docked in station and simultaneously have a huge impact within the EVE Universe. In this regard EVE’s foundations are well designed.
Perhaps you think that because Oz spends his play time in station that he is somehow immune to the risk that players who undock face. However if you were so inclined the opportunity to outcompete him in the market exists. Undocked you could attempt to identify his contractors and transporters and disrupt them. You could explode the player owned stations he seeds…
Diverse representation of EVE’s various play styles is paramount to the continued Development of the EVE universe. Apart from the fact that Oz’s contribution extends deep into the community, his expertise in his niche, in a similar fashion to Angry Mustache, increases the likelihood that the quality of input he has on that aspect of the game is top tier.
Personally, I’d rather not have a candidate who knows 10% about 90% percent of the game throwing in their two cents about how markets should operate. Heck, I’d rather not have a player who knows 50%. I want at least one candidate who knows 90% about this 10% niche offering qualified advice on what improvements to make.
CCP don’t change things often so when they do I expect they’ll do it once, so I want to be sure that it’s done well.
The TTT was destroyed in part to break up the multi-null-bloc monopoly on market profits that in theory disincentivised them to compete over control of space and resources. In summation it disincentivised competing explosions. The owners of these markets were in fact traders/traitors (they sound so similar). They owned the entire market, that’s how deep into trading they were. Thats how deeply ‘trading’ impacts the game. Sure it was a cartel and all the major blocs were profiting. Sure perhaps the great Hi-sec Keepstars experiment was a mistake. But the incentive to do so was profit, profit earned from the markets, in short, trading.
The Oz What say you about the role of shares in EVE?
I imagine a future in which purchasing and trading shares in EVE is more meaningful.
Corporations would expose themselves to market forces, and could be simultaneously attacked financially by bad faith trades, pumping and dumping etc. These in-game scenarios could play out over days, months, even years…
This is very important to remember.
There’s really no such thing as an eve expert. Every gameplay archetype has insight to the health of the total ecosystem.
Are you here because you think Oz is secretly scrumptious and engaging in a bit of middle school style pick on the person you have a crush on?
Because damn broh…
At least offer to buy him dinner before you jump so hard on his
This may be shocking to some people, but being a market master is just as much of a necessity in this game as an FC. Major Nullbloc powers have people that do nothing but market management on an alliance scale. Some even beyond such scope.
EVE is 30 games in a trench coat (and counting). You don’t have to undock to influence this game.
CCP don’t change things often so when they do I expect they’ll do it once, so I want to be sure that it’s done well.
You must be new to EVE, because this DEFINITELY is not how CCP operates.
The problem that you’re having is that your narrow definition of what it means to participate in the game has led you to an incorrect hypothesis. The false assumption that you need to undock to play EVE. That you need to PVP or PVE to be taken seriously is false. What makes Eve great is that you can spend your entire EVE career docked in station and simultaneously have a huge impact within the EVE Universe. In this regard EVE’s foundations are well designed.
This is comical to the nth degree. Without PVP, and PVE occurring outside of the stations this game doesn’t exist. Yes, the market is important. But the players that harvest resources, and sell those resources, and those that build, and then sell finished goods, all could function WITHOUT a middleman market guru. Today more than ever before an EVE industrialist MUST be able to move goods from one side of New Eden to the other. Indeed OZ even utilizes shipping services. It’s not like he moves his goods around himself.
The point that I am trying to make is that the game continues to thrive if you remove a market middleman. You could argue that it might be less efficient, and I would agree with that. But it’s not like the market would collapse without market middlemen.
All I am saying is that there is much more to this game than the market. And that gets lost at times when you operate in a bubble.
I certainly would, especially when it comes to being able to analyze and project the level of economic impact that comes from things like market bots and bots in general.
Just because he doesn’t press F1 as much as any other monkey, doesn’t mean his knowledge isn’t valuable to both the community and the game as a whole.
Just because he doesn’t press F1 as much as any other monkey, doesn’t mean his knowledge isn’t valuable to both the community and the game as a whole.
It’s not that Srajin. It is that he has no idea the pain of trying to set up a PI farm. Or the excruciating painful mind numbing process of mining ore. He has no concept of the reality of trying to move fuel blocks to power infrastructure for dozens of structures. He doesn’t understand why shifting the Muninn from an arty platform to a missile platform pissed off a bunch of players.
He doesn’t understand why tether might need to change if a structure is reinforced. Or that making super capitals nearly impossible to build has caused fewer pilots to be out in space. He doesn’t understand why people might quit the game because there are no pilots out mining, or even why pilots might not be out mining, or crabbing.
He doesn’t participate in all of the things that are absolutely vital to making a robust market. This in turn will cause him to make incorrect assumptions about that market. We all want to apply real world factors to the EVE markets, but the reality is that the EVE ecosystem is much different than the real world. Some things apply, but some absolutely do not. And when you don’t undock and actually experience the game then you have no means of learning what those things are.
He may not directly understand what it’s like to spend days on end in mining fleets. He may not have ever experienced camping a wormhole in covert ops ships for 3-4 days waiting for the right time to pounce on the inhabitants.
Then again, this is EVE. He might have, who knows.
Being able to recognize market trends in relation to current events within the cluster and interpret the potential impact is just as important as any of those other listed careers. For what he doesn’t know, I’m sure there are plenty of other knowledgeable people willing to give their opinion and wisdom based on whatever situation is relevant.
Most importantly, he could have the capacity to identify and analyze the sort of market manipulation by bots that causes -more- damage to the health of the game economy than someone being on the CSM that rarely undocks.
Seriously, it took them ten years to make a descent change to Faction Warfare. How long before they finally revisit the Corporation Management tools… Crickets
Or the Planetary Interaction tools…
You’re making a complex equivalence; you’re assuming that because there are more systems in the game than what can be experienced by remaining docked up in a station and playing the markets that this means that you’re operating in a bubble. I would argue that at times I learn more about what is going on in EVE watching Oz’s in-depth market analysis than I do watching any other long form EVE weekly. His focus on niche market fluctuations and investment opportunities often illuminates game play behaviour far outside his sphere of in-game expertise.
When Oz is elected he won’t be the only member of the CSM and the CSM won’t only consist of players whose dominant play strategy is staying docked in station and speculating on the markets.
Is it possible that you’re conflating the idea of being docked to avoid losing a ship and simultaneously denying pvp content with Oz’s entirely separate game play style of speculating on markets, fuelling industry and transport?
I get that it’s frustrating when players fear damage to their reputation, their z-kill board or ISK account, but it’s a big leap in logic to assume that because a player has a niche in one particular area this must mean that they’ve no awareness of how the rest of the game works. I don’t think that Oz is afraid of the game, or ignorant of other play styles, I think that he’s a 1% in his area of expertise within the game.
If your argument is that EVE is complicated and you can’t understand it unless you’ve done it, then none of the candidates qualify since no one has mastered every aspect of the game.
To operate consistently at the level Oz operates at he’s had to reach out beyond simple market trading and having done so successfully he’s, perhaps inadvertently, forged relationships with other experts in their niche all of which, I have no doubt, deepened his awareness.
Regarding your first question: Yes, it is very obvious that the “business side” (including marketing) is making decisions without consulting the development side. The only way that is going to improve, is if the business side understands the risks involved in unbalancing the in-game economy through reckless sales and cheap cash grabs. Apparently, the dev side has not been able to do so in the past. I intend to help them by quantifying the value destroyed by these actions in the form of subscriptions and PLEX purchases.
You may say: “What makes you think you can do so better than the game devs can?”. I honestly think that the CCP devs do not understand the in-game economy better than I do, especially not if you consider the top-down AND the player perspective.
Today more than ever before an EVE industrialist MUST be able to move goods from one side of New Eden to the other. Indeed OZ even utilizes shipping services. It’s not like he moves his goods around himself.
You are completely over-generalizing. The fact that I use shipping services in my day-to-day operations because it is the right decision from a risk/reward calculation, does not mean that I have not shipped plenty of goods in the past.
It’s not like you are telling one of the null block candidates that they have no clue about shipping things because they mainly fly in fleets.
There are some parts of Eve that I do not know well. Correct. Just like many of the null candidates know nothing about the macro-economic factors influencing the health of the in-game ecosystem. That is why it is great to have a good mix of subject matter experts on the CSM.
This right here. Not only do you have the market savvy to identify trends.
But you also fully grasp how volatile the market can become from such things.
You may not undock as much as some would prefer a CSM to do so, but you contribute an incredibly valid perspective on the game. The Market -may- just be a single aspect of the game. But I’m pretty sure it could easily be argued that it’s quite possibly one of THE BIGGEST aspects of the game.
I would love to see shares play a bigger role. It is sadly a system that was there from the beginning but never quite worked out as intended because it wasn’t developed further. I have to be honest though, I don’t think it will ever happen. The content would be appreciated by too few players in Eve Online, unfortunately.
