The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value

Sanctions dont work at all, you have to nuke them or assasinate those who you dont like by using homing suicide drones with nukes, where its necessary.

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Some people will never understand this point or they will be oblivious to the risks of not using BTC.

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I wonder how will people use btc without electric power. There is risk that we will soon see frequent power outages in EU.

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Could be, if people will trust btc. But it will not save them at all. CBDCs are wrong too.
If they could find him, they didnt need his btc at all. Its a naive comic. Soon there will be nowhere to hide where they can go, if people start believing that btc wil somehow be saving them. Or you will have to move to a complete shutdown place, it wil then be too late already. Switzerland will not be enough.

Only fiat. Its the best what can be, just have to be kept in good hands. Its why people have to go to streets now and not calmly buy BTC or some other asset. The governments have to be shown where is their place. In hands of people.

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Developers generally do not work at marketing. BTC did not get known for it’s “being a (meddeling by national or other powers) free currency” it got known as a unicorn of assets that can only go up in value. Just google it. Then it also became known for the scams around this “PRIVATE MONEY” which caused crashes of more than the real estate bubble in 2008. Ok, no bailouts but not sure if a currency developed to be a counter to the bubble would make a collapse of more on its own.

El Salvador has an energy crisis in 2017 with rationing of electricity. Only a year ago, they have made laws to try and make their electrical industry in a working condition. The Secretary of Commerce and Investments of the Presidency, Miguel Kattán, explained that the set of modifications to the regulations "what will generate is an ordering of the electricity sector and that will allow us better control and more stable prices ."
Let us hope it will go better because other wise Bukele will have to buy BTC instead of making them because it’s very quiet about El Salvador’s failure, but there is an upcoming "total win scenario for a country that’s even worse in electricity. I guess hope is a good thing but logic really escapes me on how this is going to work.

And that’s why fiat, albeit badly managed still prevails as the competitor, how smart and bright they are (not meant ironicly) somehow don’t see that implementing it where there is an issue with electricity won’t give the best results. Unless it’s just a coin for the capitalist class who can then ignore the working class alltogether. This kinda makes BTC a political discussion too. But lets not go in that too far. :smiley:

That risk is with those who are currently in. I got out, got a nice pizza from it, I hope you don’t end up with the cardboard box of the pizza.

lol, typical EVE Player diplomacy. :stuck_out_tongue: ‘Oh you!’ :smiley:

“There is no experiment where a currency was introduced with such strong incentives and still failed,” Fernando Álvarez, an economist at the University of Chicago and one of the study’s authors, told Rest of World.
It’s a first, so there’s that. They should have went to the Guinness book of world records.

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I don’t want to sound like HAL 9000 but I think “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.”. Messing with the world order will cause a lot of issues. Today we are in a situation we were before (two large emerging economic blocs. BTC won’t solve that. Oh, three, El Salvador and CAR (soon). Maybe those two will win sponsored by the ‘good companies’ who currently support BTC and want to end the social part of the government to make the economy “infinite flexible” again.

Governments are regulating crypto currency as we speak, I posted above many examples. I understand your issues but BTC will not make you anonymous. Governments will be able to fit data of deliveries to account numbers and 99.99% will be easily identified. Yes, you can be careful and even deliver with dead drops but let’s be serious, I don’t think that will be the future or good for most people.

Will BTC be a niche? Sure, it serves a purpose for people to send money around the world. It used to be untaxed, it used to not be regulated so you could do a lot of things with it that would be against the law if you were a bank or handling real assets.

Also when governments change ‘direction’ they will separate sheeps and wolves. Then they need to make the wolf have a stake in being on their side. That’s all. Even in China you can recover from a -9001 social credit score, it’s an incredible long effort but if you aren’t dumb you can do it. It’s much easier than becoming a BTC gorillionaire.

Crypto is giving insane tracing power to shady companies and the government so I am sure you are mistaken. The best way to have an opposition is a controlled opposition. You’ll trap all the enemies of the state (like for example McAfee) gather in one big group you can easily monitor.

I left (most) social media a few years ago; Facebook, VK, Hi5 and all the other nonsense that’s offered ‘for free’ yet you pay with privacy and time. We do have common visions on a lot of things but on BTC I left in 2010 and will never come back. You should save this quote here and when we are all forced to use BTC you can tell me my comment aged like milk. I’d still use it because I wouldn’t care about “non traced” fiat and “controlled BTC”.

The Darkweb and the real world are very different. And things can indeed change in two directions (or even more, I’m not a politician so I’m not into all that) and in both ways I’ll adapt. At least I can continue to complain about BTC and then the people of 2020’s will actually have reversed roles. It happened before, will happen after. “1984” isn’t a prediction, it’s a good analysis on how control works if the social structure fails. And it failed. All that awaits us is to cheer on whatever government and modes of payment we have, or else. :wink:

We will see. I would argue that in absence of both blocks not wanting to give the other block the power over a means of exchange, the logical solution is to utilize the mean of exchange no one has power over to still facilitate trade. They could go back to gold, but that is far to cumbersome. But I guess it will take some time until they stop trying and give in.

I’m genuinely not sure what you are talking about here.

Yes, they are regulating companies that interact with it and build on it, and that is completely fine.

It’s only transparent on the settlement layer. Transactional layers like Lightning have pretty good privacy. Individual transactions are not recorded on the ledger. Payments are forwarded with a similar mechanism Tor uses, called onion routing. So not even intermediate nodes know the start and end of a transaction. Even the receiver doesn’t know who the sender was, just that the invoice was payed. It’s not perfect yet, and there are ways to leak information that allow partial reconstruction if you control enough intermediate LN nodes, but this weaknesses are rapidly worked on.

So in the end you have a transparent payment for large sums that can eventually be de-anonymized, but small individual transactions remain private.

Good choice. How about Google?

Uh you had Bitcoin at one point? Is it too painful to tell us at what price you bought and sold? 2010 is like under a dollar territory.

The whole point is that the government dictate of money ends and we get back to money as a market good, so it is allowed to evolve, not by force, but by choice. I just happen to think Bitcoin will win in such a market, and it’s invention re-enabled the market because it is immune to central control and coercion.

I sometimes think certain politicians in the EU look to it more as a guide.

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It could be a thing but we’ll have to wait and see, it’s a very complex situation.

I still use google and on occasion DuckDuckGo, just to make sure all government know what nasty things I am planning, it is my one weakness. One day the government will find out who googled “Using baguettes to overthrow the French government.”. I can still claimed I was looking up history. :wink:

If people choose it, why not. The thing is that I don’t see it happening but I didn’t think the ipod would become anything. If you carry a pencil with you there is nothing ipods have that is better than a walkman.
But… Pentagon-Commissioned New Report on Blockchain Finds High-risk Security Lapses | Coinspeaker
https://assets-global.website-files.com/5fd11235b3950c2c1a3b6df4/62af6c641a672b3329b9a480_Unintended_Centralities_in_Distributed_Ledgers.pdf
Someone wrote a weak rebuttal that says nothing. He could have said there were around 70 active BTC projects but that wouldn’t be in the author’s interest in selling BTC.
Fact Check: DARPA Funded Report on Blockchain Centralization

For example
“There are currently four active contributors with access to modify the Bitcoin Core codebase, the compromise of any of whom would allow for arbitrary modification of the codebase.”
Is countered with “users running nodes, not developers, decide which code to run”

Completely ignores the issue at hand. Some bad code can be slipped in by only a few people. The user does not check the code. You can rebuttel this with “BTC software users vastly outperform all software developers” but that’s not true, the risk remains. Or it forks and then some remain on one of the 70+ actively maintained BTC projects.

I have a CEO here that says otherwise; The guy, Saylor, who has “issues with accounting” yet can lower his taxes due to losses from BTC.

“At December 31, 2020, we carried $1.054 billion of digital assets on our balance sheet, consisting of approximately 70,469 bitcoin and reflecting $70.7 million in cumulative impairment losses attributable to bitcoin trading price fluctuations, and held $59.7 million in cash and cash equivalents, compared to no digital assets and $456.7 million in cash and cash equivalents at December 31, 2019, reflecting the shift in our liquid asset holdings following the adoption of our Treasury Reserve Policy. Digital asset impairment losses of $70.7 million incurred during the year ended December 31, 2020 represented 17.5% of our operating expenses for the year, compared to no digital asset impairment
losses for the year ended December 31, 2019, contributing to our net loss of $7.5 million in the year ended December 31, 2020 compared to net income of $34.4 million in the year ended December 31, 2019”

He keeps buying that stuff, is he dumb? No, he will pay less taxes once he start to sell it. If BTC keeps going to zero he will keep buying for his profit at the expense of teh US taxpayer. Loss generating asset goes brrrr… at least i’m not going to be taxed to pay up when his company can’t pay it’s debts anymore.

It gets better… Contact Us ← They forget to mention their “tax expert” office in Delaware, lol. Do they even need BTC ? Damn. The more you dig…

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Those banks are ‘untrusted’ private banks, just like BTC exchanges. They have the same trustworthiness. I think it was said, but I’ll check out the video.

Update: I checked out the video, was kinda dissapointed, it does ntoo describe the scale of the issue, doesn’t look on how economical solutions are planned. It just says “OMG YOU GONNA RUN OUT OF MONEY AND DIE.” Ah well, I guess I better buy BTC so… eh… I can buy cakes instead of bread? lol.

and… it was not bank accounts, it was …
“We were told by the banks that the deposit products were legal, and that they were protected by the deposit insurance scheme”

Keep digging. But you are right with that video, BTC is the same risk and those people will not see their money back either.

Now for the real estate bubble, that’s true, it’s a mess. Andmost of those cities built for people transitioning from further away failed because sitting in the train one hour a day isn’t worth a house/apartment for the average Chinese worker. There are many megalomaniac projects around the world, some fail. Has nothing to do with BTC/FIAT though. It’s just the economy being overrun by corrupt people and people who think getting rich fast and avoiding taxes is good on the long run.

People are under the mistaken belief that BTC value has to be high for it to be effective,

BTC is a risk when you give it to CEO’s like Do Kwon or the one’s managing Three Arrows 100% agreed.

When BTC is stored on a personal node the only risk is losing access, no one can access it and take it from you unless you tell them your codes.

Still there is a thing like not receiving btc when you send cargo, or not sending cargo when someone sends btc. How you can be sure that you will ever get what you bought, without the people who can actually go there and make someone pay?

A Bitcoin transaction cannot be reversed , it can only be refunded by the person receiving the funds. This means you should take care to do business with people and organizations you know and trust, or who have an established reputation.

If BTC is not widely accepted and there isnt someone like a third party confirming the transaction and gods being delivered, you risk a lot more. If govs will outlaw it and use their own crypto, you will see nobody helping you when you exchange BTC for something you will not receive, you will even see gov agencies setting the market for it to get that btc, in such case its useless for people who plan on using it in future.

Maybe its last whistle before that profit is sailing away for people holding BTC. :thinking:

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They sell data of people using BTC to USA gov.

So much for decentralization, anonymity, safety, no control over it and freedom from govs and banks.
Who am I kidding, majority of people holding it are only interested in its value rising.

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Investors are under a belief that if they buy something they get a Return On Investment. They could be wrong, but I think that’s just the nature of business, making a profit. I can understand that to make BTC something, there have been substantial financial contributions by the BTC community, but it’s still not there, billions of USD later.

Fiat currency doesn’t cost the same to transact. Yes, bills and coins do get damaged and lost and every few years a newer and better ‘copy protection’ is made but that’s still way cheaper.

Ok, but since BTC is not controlled, any scammer can take it and use it.

I think the responsibility of running a bank should not be given to people who’s only credentials are :

  • thinking the government is bad and want to steal ‘your’ money and fail to add ‘to give it to the poor’.
  • were convicted of fraud or had to pay the government a lot of money in a settlement of fraud.
    *…
    I should make a bingo card, I’ll see when I have time and post it here. :smiley:

More regulation will follow in a way BTC can be used in a normal way, but with most of those “very profitable” systems that get legalized… Suddenly it’s ‘not very profitable’ once they have to pay taxes, pay employees,…

Again, the option is there to run one’s own Bitcoin node. This is what I’ve been trying to tell you. You can become “The Bank of Aedaxus” you’ll have 1 customer (yourself) and you will have full and total control over your BTC where it can only be taken from you if you give someone the access codes.

So they’ve had you again, your stuck in a belief “I can only use an exchange to store my BTC” despite being told otherwise factually you can own a node.

So no, any scammer can’t just take it, they have to do one of their scams first (Youtube BTC Doubling Scam, Twitter BTC/ETH Doubling scam, Fake crypto investment app)

These crypto scams are similar to fiat money scams, (Tax office phonecall scam, missed parcel scam, I’m calling from your bank scam, Buy a covid test scam)

All of the scams seem to require an action from the person being scammed if people don’t perform these actions then their money is safe.

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All of it depends on people, and experience teaches us that you cant fix stupid. No matter how clever the security can be, the stupid is much more inventive.

You can only minimize risk of being scammed.

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Yeah, that is complete ■■■■■■■■, because everyone can modify the Bitcoin Core codebase, it’s right here: GitHub - bitcoin/bitcoin: Bitcoin Core integration/staging tree . So you can clone the repo to your own computer or you can just fork it right there and even edit it in the browser.

You can also see here: Commits · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub who makes exactly what changes. You can click on each change and get a convenient diff to review the changes. Additionally you have a lot of tooling in the Git client if you have the repo locally and you can do all kinds of filtering to figure out who changes what.

There are a lot of eyes on that code. It’s all in the open. You don’t have to check yourself if you don’t have the know how to do, but you can rest assured that there are a lot of people who do care and do know how to check constantly watching all this changes.

And besides that, you can run whatever old version you like.

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