Undevalue t2 mining frigares

we have venture : bonus to mining/gas + 2 warp stabs 5k ore cargo

we have prospect ( syn. to perpective, survey, explore ) : advanced cloak, more bonuses ti mining/ same for gas, lass signature , no warp stabs 10k cargo

we have endurance ( syn. hardness toghness durability duration) : cloacking bonus, massive boost for mining / no gas boost , bonus to shield resistances, no warp stabs, only 1 slot for mining laser 15k cargo

yet with all bonuses t2 mining frigate are less used than venture

my idea is to specialise t2 frigates to specify their role

venture as it is

prospect - mining frigate to find and mine resourses that are hidden - add 1 high slot slot, delete covert cyno, change for t2 bonuses : 5% decrease time cycle (not addicative ) to all mining equipment and 5% to scan

endurance - mining frigate to come to site mine and leave alive even if attacked - delete masking add 1 weapon slot change t1 fr bonuses to venture bonuses, change t2 frigate bonuses : 5 shield res and 15% resistance to webs? ( i duuno what second to add), change project bonuses to : +3 warp stab, +150 to mining/gas harvest, less reactor for shields?

UPD1. go to post 25 to see current state of opinions

What’s the point of these? “5 shield res”? “15% web resist?” +150 to mining/gas what do these numbers mean? “Less reactor for shields”? It really sounds like you’re a new player who doesn’t know what they’re talking about, just asking for change because of change’s sake.

What the hell is a “hidden resource”? Why does a prospect need 4 high slots when it can’t fit a covert cyno anymore? Why would anyone want to fly a tanky mining frigate? The whole point of the expedition frigates is that they’re fast and sneaky. If I want tank I’ll fly a proc.

hidden resourse - scan / wh

prospect 4th slot to fit Both probe laucher and cloack

tanky frigate - no i meaned a frigate that can not survive an attack but if attacked to succesfully run and i marked 2 points with question marks that you can add your possible bonuses

endur will be still fast and instead of sneaky - hard to catch

5% shield resistances is already t2 bonus for prospect

15% web resist and less reactor for shields i marked i dont know what to place here so i awaited others suggestions

with 1 slot endurance already has +300% to mining lasers and -50 cycle time to ice harvest

i started this thread to make suggestions and because i really think that mining frigates are not attarctive to a lot of players beacuse eve thay are “upgraded” venture somehow i regularry hear about “if i go mining in wh/low/null i will take venture”

if you look through some posts about update you will certainly see phrase like : “awaiting tons of VENTURES in low/null sec” not mining frigates not prospects/endures but ventures

The T2 Expedition Frigates are specialists - they are not “a better Venture”. They have different niches, and like most specialists they are great and what they do, but not generalists.

The Prospect is for mining where you shouldn’t be. It is Cloaked to allow it to sneak in and, more importantly, out of areas. If you are in a null-sec area that you own and have someone watching your back then a Venture is fine (or anything else). However, if it’s not your area and you’ve gone in for a bit of ninja mining then the Prospect is good for that little Expedition.
Ninja mining surprisingly good fun - and you do it for fun more than profit. Resource Theft? It ain’t yours if you can’t stop me taking it.

The Endurance is a good ship for mining in the rougher areas - less sneaky than the Prospect, though the ability to move quickly while cloaked is a surprising good advantage. Add a Scan Probe Launcher (three high slots and a bonus to allow it to be effective with only one miner: probe/cloak/miner). Also, the bonus to drones gives it the ability to deal with the rats in low-sec areas comfortably. And it’s a nice little ice miner as well. Especially if the ice isn’t in a safe area.
The Endurance is the less subtle tough brother of the sneakier Prospect. Which you use depends on the situation and your personal preference.

Neither is a generalist “better Venture” - they are well founded specialists with different balances to work well in different niches - better in those niches than a Venture, but not exceptional outside that niche. It’s like saying that a Guardian, a logistics specialist, is just “a better cruiser”.
To the OP’s credit, he did identify the two niches that the Expedition Ships fit into, but probably didn’t realise how they fit into those niches in their current forms without being overpowered. I fly both - and both are great fun in within their specialisms.

And like any specialist it’s not going to be as commonly seen as a cheap generalist. And never as cheap.


For endurance my idea is to go to these rougher areas and leave them even if attacked so i added warp stabs

For prospect my idea was a specialist to sneak in, to mine fast, and leave undetected so i mentioned 5% cycle decrease

maybe i was wrong with overgenerialising but still prospect/endurance need a buff(maybe small maybe not) even with specilisation

Of course T2 mining frigates are less used than the venture.

I bet most ships are less used than the venture, as

  1. everyone and their mom are given multiple free ventures when they start the game and
  2. ventures require absolutely no skills

As this is your reason to think the very specialised T2 mining frigates require changes, I have nothing to say but ‘lol’


my quote here is compairing venture and prospect/endurance for different purposes

wow you cant even read that im compairing only mining frigates

as i said earlier t2 frirages are used less than ventures ( and specialy for you i repeat:

As a new player you will regularly hear that people take out Ventures to mine in dangerous areas, as

  1. those players do not have the skills for t2 mining frigates and
  2. those players do not have the ISK for t2 mining frigates

The t2 mining frigates, especially the Endurance, is perfect at what it does. It mines ice and does so really well. Do you wish to solo mine ice in a hostile environment? I’d take an Endurance over any other ship any time. It can take on any belt rat that can spawn (sig tank the bigger ones, kill the smaller ones) and cloak up whenever danger shows, while mining as much ice as a Procurer. Yet it has barely any risk while travelling as it can warp directly out of cloak, which also makes it a fantastic ice hauler with the significant ore hold.

The Prospect is similar. While I haven’t huffed a lot of gas yet, I would take a Prospect over a Venture any time I go out huffing gas in dangerous areas. Warping around cloaked while looking like a blops dropper? Sure thing!

These ships do not need changes.

The venture is a good choice for newbies who still have to learn the game, as it is easy to get into and easy to replace. Once you get better and die less often, you really should consider an upgrade to the Endurance if you’re mining ice, or the Prospect if you’re mining gas.

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1st - im not a nebie and i mined ■■■■ ton of resourses in whs
2nd - i mined those resourses using all said mining frigates

i really love to mine in whs for gas mostly but i dont forget about other minerals

and this is my suggestions about their current situation

Fair points.
However: I’m rather in the view of allowing the player to make the choice in some areas of balance.
For example, the Endurance. You can already fit three warp core stabilisers to it if you wish for the ability to escape or you can fit some tank (a DC2 for example) and some improvements to mining speed or agility (faster warp out if spotted). Player’s choice.

An example would be giving a hull an additional innate warp stability. It removes the need for a choice. As a result everything starts to be fitted the same way. And that feels bad. Diversity is a good thing!

A Prospect already mines at 50% more than a Venture - and that’s with a couple of Warp Stabiliser’s fitted and a half decent tank (for a frigate). I’m not sure adding more bonus to it is going to be well balanced - the Prospect already feels as if it’s in a good place. If you need more mining performance on it, then fit Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs with T2 Crystals (more capex and operating cost). You are thendouble the rate of a Venture - though the cycle time makes me nervous (and that’s a trade-off), and still have +2 stability if you want it.
And a better align time than a Venture if you do decide to run for it.
In terms of ISK/second a Prospect in Low-sec can out perform a Procurer in Hi-sec for two thirds the cost. And is more engaging.

As I said, in general I’m in favour of the risk/benefit decisions of a ship being in the hands of the player rather than hard baked into the basic hull. And to me I believe they are in a good place.

As for recommending a new player takes a Venture into lo-sec? I’d never deter them - though I’d tell them to keep their eyes open and stay alert - it’s not “AFK mining time”. But it is profitable, it can be fun being chased, and there’s more thrill to it than the normal grinding of safe rocks.
But I would also warn them that they will probably loose their ships - either bad luck of complacency will catch them eventually. But if you can get away with it you’ll make a fair profit.

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yet still some bugging doesn’t leave me that you are really right about this and at the same time there is a feeling that something in them (t2 mining frigates) are missing

Nothing is missing in the Endurance as far as I can tell, I’ve used it a lot and I really like how that ship works.

Decent ice mining yield, large ore hold, ability to cloak up at sign of danger, ability to align and warp immediately after dropping cloak, can survive belt rats solo… if I’m going to solo mine some ice in unfriendly space the Endurance is a great choice.

Compared to barges the Endurance is much quicker and safer to move around to new ice mining systems due to the frigate size and cloak and it has a larger ore hold. It mines as fast as the slower ones and while it mines slower than the Covetor, the Covetor has 0 survivability and a tiny ore hold.

Compared to the Venture, the Endurance is actually able to mine ice. So that’s no comparison. For mining ores the Endurance has the benefit over a Venture that it can survive null belt rats with the extra drone, resists and slots, while a Venture would get overwhelmed and require assistance. It is a bit more expensive of course, which may make the Venture a better choice in areas where you expect to die often before you may have paid off the extra cost for the T2 frigate, but that doesn’t make the Endurance a bad choice, it just makes the Endurance a bad choice in that situation.

I have not yet extensively used the Prospect, so I don’t know if that ship may require an update, but the Endurance certainly doesn’t.

My issue with the Prospect is that it has no way to defend itself (no drones) so if you’re tackled by some small NPC frigate… well, you don’t want to get tackled.
And it’s a bit of a hassle that you ideally want a cloak, probe launcher and two gas huffers if you’re out gas huffing, but you only have 3 high slots. Now is the Prospect designed with that in mind, and it was given enough cargo space to hold a mobile depot for refitting, but it’s a bit annoying nonetheless.

And the ore yield of the Prospect is low. It is of course higher than that of a Venture, but it is lower than that of T1 strip miner barges, even when all four lows are dedicated to mining improvements. This is a shame, because it would be nice for players to have a decent option to mine ore in a frigate. It shouldn’t be better than barges (or exhumers), but at least should come close for players specialised in T2 mining frigates.

If I were to change anything about the T2 mining frigates it would be this:


  • unchanged


  • -1 low slot; +1 high slot
  • Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level) 5% bonus to Mining yield → 8% bonus per level

An increase to 7% per level would make up for a lost low slot dedicated to mining yield, and the extra 5% at max level will bring the yield closer to a T1 strip miner barge.

We are very lucky that CCP isn’t taking your ideas.

maybe change not yield but cycle reduction 3%

Right now it already has a yield bonus and has a 4th low slot. If I wanted to compensate the loss of yield from removal of that low slot, increasing the yield bonus makes sense.

But I suppose cycle reduction could be an option too.

Yeah, this basically confirms what I’m thinking. There’s no reason to make changes to the game just for the sake of changes. I don’t even think you know what you’re really talking about here.

Let me fire a round here.

Ask the question why is the Prospect and Endurance not used vs the Venture.

Omega Skill.

Most players will focus on the Barges first just because of the mass ore intake. Although the Prospect and Endurance can be on par by m3 intake easily if Max-Min.

Prospect can do a about ~3650m3 intake [maximum theoretical possible] But that is T2 Modulated Deep Core Miners.
Endurance is a bit lower ~3200m3 intake [maximum theoretical possible] with T2 But you have to remember Endurance is a Drone Capable ship. So you can field a flight of three mining drones as well. So about the same intake as Prospect in mining about ish. Into 4000m3 range if you buff the drones.

Prospect can be also adjusted to ludricious small signature size by skills and Halo implants down to 24m which is the size of a Capsule. And it gets smaller in Wolf-Rayet WH. And I think Instinct adjusts it even further.

Endurance is a bit more wonky because at full navigation skill, and under basic cloak its probably the fasted “stealth ship” If equipped with a Halo Miner setup. These ships are really hard to catch. And if you prop mod them with deadspace AB they can out speed most threats at a freakish level never mind MWD. I have gotten the Endurance to 3km/s with AB on. Also the speed of the ship makes alot of NPC miss. Which is when I like to talk about ‘NPC Recruiting’ Because if you fit this ship to have scrams/stabs you can pin an attacker down for the NPC pummel while you make a getaway.

The other funny thing is Prospects and Endurances get even more crazy under boost. An Omnivore+Yeti-Implant Endurance can get its Ice Mining lasers down to like 26.5sec cycle under boost 48 sec base adjusted down. [And remember an Endurance is literally a Micro Skiff with 15,000m3 ore hold.] Which makes it the king of High Sec Ice Collection.

Prospect though is a bit more nuanced. Because it is a ore miner but also a gas miner as well. But the real interest is the gas mining capacities. Which can both be tweaked under boost. I have looked at the adjustments of gas cycle times inside [with Tier II mind you of literally 22sec.] Also same gas miners can be even range boosted by implants and boost as well!

The problem I have is the Venture and Prospect are equal in gas mining capacity. There is no benefit up or down. A Venture has an inate Warp Core Stab which can be boosted to +3 with an additional Warp Core. Industrial Cyno is avail. Venture can also with its rigs actually become a drone boat, and its mining drone boosts literally have the mining drones out performing most of its miners. You can fit a Venture to do Multi-role. Mining or Gas +Scanning+Relic/Data all in one ship. For a fairly low cost.

So why would I get a Prospect over a Venture?
Prospect only has 3 upper slots. [One of which must be covert cloak] + 2 slots for Ore/Ice Miners/Salvagers/Gas Miners. So it becomes a juggling game because you can carry a Depot with a Prospect. But the Prospects Cargo size aids in being modulated miner equipped. Which the Venture has to be very careful with. So you can adjust in field from mining to gas to ice as needed. Or if necessary Cyno / Combat. Prospect feels like “ORE Interceptor” and has been used as such. With its shields and cloak allowing it to interdict other ships maybe carrying out the same activities. But with no drones you have some serious downsides vs the Endurance and Venture which can buff their drones with rigs. Sometimes Insanely so. Also Prospect is weirdly 10,000m3 [No other Ore ship has this cargo size for some reason]

Endurance on the other hand feels a bit more deliberately multirole. As in you can Ice/Mine with it easily its ore mining bonus of 300% is nothing to sneeze at. Its innate speed bonuses mean you have to kind of carefully finesse drone operations because even speed adjusted mining drones struggle to keep up with it without AB on during orbits around mining rocks.

Your three upper slots can be adjusted in a bewildering array of variable builds to maximize the ships capacity. And you can carry a mobile depot and equipment in your much more comfortable sized cargo bay vs. the Prospect which means you can swap out even more aggressively. It can support some very effective multirole builds. And with a 15,000m3 ore hold is on par with a Skiff. Kind of displacing the Skiff in many fields, due to competitive pricing. Rapid Ice mining capacity buffed by Omnivores allows a player in Highsec to crush the Barge competition with or without boosts. [I actually surprised an Orca Boosting Multi-box player by keeping parity in collection of Ice. He had 200 units of Ice after Ice Mining Drone and Boosted Hulks. I had 150 units of Ice over the same time period. Granted I have to offload it more often. So some time lost there.] Boosted Prospect can possibly do twice as fast with two Ice Miners and Omnivores. But the Capacitor and CPU limit the number you can field vs. Endurance. And having a 10,000m3 cargo hold vs. 15km3 cargo hold.

The problem is this. Prospect is equivalent in Gas Collection to a Venture, and Endurance although having Ice Collection bonuses isn’t really good at Gas Collection. So price wise Prospect and Endurance already are overlooked mostly on cost and due the fact the Venture can already do what they can do easily. Now a boosted Prospect and Endurance in Ore and Ice mining is insanely good. But the high resource areas in the game require boosting ships which attracts attention. [Notice I said boosting ships…ie Command Destroyers/BCs etc. Before even waving the Porpoise/Orca/Rocqual around.]

Also the Ventures innate warp core stabs also make it really really beneficial. And as a players skills increase this advantage becomes more apparent. A Venture with an Additional Warpcore Stab is a really tough item to catch. Even as their skills increase. The Prospect and Endurance to “compete” by adding +4 Warp Core Stabs [Prospect] and +3 Warp Core Stabs [Endurance] Which forces the players to “Face Plant” their prospective Expeditions into materials to get locks, which then is extremely slow. Warp Core Stabs have negative effects on signature resolution and lock range which slows down locks. Also the Venture having 3 Rig slots vs. Prospect and Endurances 2 Rig Slots gives it some very insane bonuses to certain fields allowing the ship out outshine both in various nuanced ways.

Also the Expedition Frigates also are borked by an issue of their requirement skills being longer than Barges. So Barges tend to be looked at first vs. Expedition Ships. And also that most higher efficiency miners are available a Lv IV where a Strip Miner can be avail to an Alpha Player at T1. [Further Incentivizing their drive to barges.] Also the issue of covert op cloak and cloaking does slow down expedition frigate training.

I Believe though the Prospect needs an edge over the Venture in Gas Mining. Just a small edge. Either in gas miner cycle speed or intake increase. So its more apt to be chosen over a Venture once the Skills are trained.

The Endurance could also do with a Gas Mining intake bonus. So its not left out of the fun. Although it would not have a gas mining bonus to cycle speed. But the amount taken in. Slower but more gas. And the Endurance would have the capacity.

But remember the rats spawn in WH space after a set time so this becomes a careful dance. And LS is another matter all together.

Although I have to be honest I would like to see an in between ship between the Venture and Barge so to force a bit of a slow down mode for Barge Skill Training. So then a player has to think which route he wants to take. And having this in between ship avail for Alphas would allow you to use T1 Alpha Strips at the get go albeit it would be ore hold cargo space than a barge. Also having some sort of boosted in between variant of the mining frigate between the Venture and the Expeditions would also interest the players in going that route. [I was thinking a Venture variant much like the four mining laser slot NPC mining Frigates I see on a consistent basis.]

Also to note some items are well rounded in pick up. So a Venture can carry 1000units of [any type of Gneiss ] at 5000m3 ore hold. Prospect can carry 2000 units of Gneiss at 10,000m3 ore hold. And Endurance can carry 3000 units of Gneiss at 15,000m3. Remember Endurance is equivalent to a Skiff.

But the OP has a point some areas of the ship trees are left out because the magnetic draw of certain specific ships and their fairly on face economic advantages in the game. And with your skills going up some attributes of even T1 ships start to directly compete with T2 ships for player interest or economic viability. This being extremely important to overall skill investment and use of Plex/Omega etc.

Prospect needs a small bonus to give it an edge in gas mining over the Venture.
Endurance probably needs a Gas Intake bonus if sent gas mining. So it can be a competitive alternative to both. But still be preferred for Ice, while the Prospect would Mining/Gas. The Venture and possible in betweens are good for multirole operations but not specialized Ice mining.

Both Barge and Expedition Frigate Lines need an interest dragging ship available to Alphas. So it draws their attention and skill capacities to consider where they want to go. Also there needs to be an ORE [ore hauling industrial] with much more expanded capacities than a Miasmos or DST. Still will be Omega but will be a preferred ship for dangerous mass mining transfers and market runs.

Also a specialized Light Ore Command ship needs to fill in a roll, so players will use them more aggressively in support of Expedition Frigates and Small Ninja Mining gangs, or to boost the Ventures and etc. Possibly could be tied to Expedition Frigate Skills to unlock.

That is where some of the weaknesses of the ORE line are kind of glaring.

t2 frigs are very specialized (and omega)…venture is an alpha usable ship+cheap+it can do most things (even combat lmao) fairly well…although the t2 frigs might seem better, they cost 90 times more and they specialize in 1 thing and suck ass in everything else. prospect is for cloaky mining/gas succing (and doing covert cyno blops ■■■■ ), endurance is for low/null mining because it can endure (lol) what goes on down there…i personally think theyre fine as is (the 1 minerer slot on the endurance is compensated for by its 300% yield bonus). youre trying to mix prospect gas bonuses into the endurance (these frigs are to do one thing and suck at everything else they arent bonus smoothies).all of them are fine as they are and if youre still wondering why venture is more popular its an alpha cheap ship that can mine ice and gas, and if it explodes thats fine cause its cheap.