So @Roan_Pico, my sarcastic 5-yo’s fantasy story turns partially into reality after 2 months. Except it applies to HS systems of course. I’m not sure if it’s funny or sad story now 
“In Chapter 4 they will randomly turn the rest few null systems into WH making only small null islands. The null ore will get nerfed too.”
Now we have WH like Pochven and null ore nerfed too. Hold my 
Your inability to understand a simple point is rather disconcerting. This game is about flux - in that things are in constant state of change and subject to the actions of players in game. Furthermore, they always should be in a state of flux. The notion that a certain action, at a certain point in time, could have enduring consequences is entirely against that notion.
Having a Final Liminality cutting the major trade route in two was like building a fortress which is unable to be dislodged. It was for some time, during the time when conversation was had, a permanent gate-camp and a ‘kill-mail printing machine’ - and at that point when it was Final Liminality, there was nothing at all which could be done about it.
Now, I’m not saying that that victory wasn’t deserved, or that there should be gains from it. What I was saying, both then and now, is that the mistake was to grant that victory, and it’s consequences, finality.
I would much rather have seen the possibility for re-invasion of systems. Whether they had been Final Liminality or EDENCOM Fortress. Because, the failure to do so betrays the underlying notion that nothing is safe.
Niarja was for the Triglavians a ‘Fortizar’ that could not have been dislodged, and I dare say many who came into this content following the invasion of it would have liked the opportunity to contest it. In exactly the same way as one might contest an enemy system in Factional Warfare.
Much of the resistance which pro-EDENCOM forces might have offered was not in-force at that time - as it takes time to organise and mobilise that kind of resistance. As evidenced by many of the subsequent campaigns for other systems. Niarja was, in essence, a ‘Pearl Harbour’ moment. A shallow and hollow victory - and a worthless boast.
And so I’d put it to you that the Triglavians were not the victors in Niarja, rather, it is a contest which did not, and has not yet taken place - and since this content has become rather dead and failed. I’d suggest that it’s not one which we’re ever likely to see.
It was obvious from day 1 that Niarja would get invaded, since it was already mentioned by name in trig lore(!).
We prepared for it, put up stations, and ran the fleet 36h in one go, with people putting up 20h without real brake.
Edencom players could have prepared too. They didn’t (enough). We won. We got our spoils of war.
Except this “rule” is not consistently applied elsewhere. Why don’t I have the ability to flip Jita to nullsec and destroy all of the stations? Why does that content remain static?
Much of the resistance which pro-EDENCOM forces might have offered was not in-force at that time - as it takes time to organise and mobilise that kind of resistance.
And yet the pro-triglavian side had no problem organizing their own forces. You don’t get a re-vote just because your side was less skilled and determined.
But that’s just it. We were more skilled and more determined, as subsequent campaigns show. The Triglavian record for conquering Non-Caldari systems, following Niarja, was woeful. Pro-EDENCOM forces captured far more systems -and that only serves to illustrate what might have been possible had the invasion of that system occurred during the climax of hostilities instead of the onset.
The pro-triglavian forces, as you put it, did not need to organise in the same way because they had outside help from Nulsec blocs. Which of course have a vested interest in decimating the Highsec market. They are in no way reliant upon it. They were essentially given a free shot to take out their competition - just as Rome did to Carthage - and they took it.
Highsec has never had to organise in this way before. There’s simply been no need - and as a lowsec PvP pilot myself, I can say with authority that organising these highsec pilots into a capable fighting force was no small feat.
But, when we did organise it. As all the pieces fell into place. Logistics, communication, and command. Along with the right mixture of controlled agression from PvP pilots, ganking, and the pure capability to simply grind that content… Yes, we did win, yes we were more determined, and skilled.
And guess what? The failure to allow re-contest for Niarja has robbed you of the ability to say otherwise.
But you weren’t more skilled and determined when it mattered for Niarja. You lost, get over it.
Why do you feel like you were entitled to “re-contest”?
Merin. My skill was never brought into question… I wasn’t there when Niarja was lost.
So, this simple fact robs you of any boast you could possibly have over me. THAT is my point.
I feel that everyone should be.
Being there when the important battle happens is itself a skill. Organizing after the objective has already been lost is a sign of weakness and failure, and you are not entitled to a redo just because the other side was better than you and won.
I feel that everyone should be.
Then why can’t I flip Jita to nullsec?
Well I feel that you had your chance and if you weren’t even participating when it fell, that’s your loss.
It would be a bad idea to completely nullify the efforts of the playerbase just because a couple of people feel like they’re entitled to a re-do.
You obviously haven’t been following this thread. I said previously that prior to the Triglavian content I was away from the game entierly - due to actually having a life outside of it.
And this simple fact, however unfair to may seem to you, robs you of your boast. If I don’t deem the contest to have taken place, then, I’ll nullify the outcome.
Sorry if this doesn’t seem fair to you, but, that is the actual fact of the matter. Metaphorically speaking, you went to play a game of football - and the other team wasn’t there. Now, you CAN say that you won - and indeed this is true. But, you CANNOT say that you were the better team, or that the other team was worse. Sadly, your boast here is empty, and meaningless. It nullifies your efforts.
So yea, that’s why it needed to happen. That’s why the content needed to evolve into a form of ‘to-and-froe’. As much for your own sake as for mine. As my point here is that there is a contest yet to be had - and it’s pointless to draw conclusions from that which took place prior.
So what about the players who took Niarja and are no longer playing now? If it is unacceptable for your side to suffer a loss while you are not playing then why should they suffer a loss while they aren’t playing?
Half of NS was on Edencoms side in Niarja.
I’ve already anticipated you. My solution is simple.
Create a mechanisim where-by a change of state can be triggered for an EDENCOM Fortress, Minor Victory, or Triglavian Minor Victory, or Final Liminality.
Such a process would require the belligerent forces to enter and contest the system under it’s current conditions, and successfully run a kind of content which triggers an event to re-contest the system. Running such a site would be subject to other player interference as well as substantial resistance from NPC’s. Such that a massive amount of effort be mobilized to achieve it.
The current status of Niarja disagrees with your nullification.
But, you CANNOT say that you were the better team, or that the other team was worse.
Sure you can. A football team that is so hilariously incompetent that they can’t even figure out how to show up for their scheduled game makes the Jets look like a professional football team.
My solution is simple.
And incomplete. Why should only those systems be open to flipping? If their status must be in flux why isn’t Jita’s status in flux? You claim to be against static content but so far the only thing you’re upset about is the system that your side lost.
So you’re saying that CCP should reverse the course of player driven changes just on the possibility that some kid was away from the game and decides to come back? Yeah, that sounds like a fine way to handle in-game events. Do you even hear yourself talking?
HEY EVERYONE, THANKS FOR YOUR HARDWORK GRINDING SITES AND FLIPPING SYSTEMS, BUT THIS ONE KID JUST CAME BACK SO WE’RE GONNA RESET EVERYTHING AND RENDER ALL YOUR EFFORTS FOR THE LAST TWO WEEKS NULL.
I don’t disagree with the outcome. I merely disagree with the meaning which you infer because of it. Wining Niarja is not the same thing as defeating me - these are two different things.
…And incomplete. Why should only those systems be open to flipping? If their status must be in flux why isn’t Jita’s status in flux? You claim to be against static content but so far the only thing you’re upset about is the system that your side lost.
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Excellent idea. Why not indeed?
No.
Scoots I think the real question is do you hear you? No I DID NOT say that CCP should should reverse the course of player driven changes. What I have said. Am saying. Have always said. Is that CCP should permit the ongoing influence of further player actions to influence and allow further change. That CCP should permit players to affect change - and not simply assign an end state to any given system. However, with the current changes and Triglavian space pocket it is clear that CCP has clearly gone in a different direction which makes much of this conversation moot.
Now, as for your other points. Yes, you might consider it unfair that I might nullify a given outcome. But also consider that you’re drawing implications with regard to superiority, victory, capability, etc. - and doing so against myself and many other pro-EDENCOM pilots who were not there and did not participate at Niarja. So yes, you won the system.
Does that mean much to me personally?
Not really.
Does it say anything with regards to any contest between ourselves?
Not really.
So, it’s of no consequence. It’s of no consequence because myself, along with a great majority of the pro-EDENCOM force wasn’t there. What’s your point? Yes, it might seem unfair too you that I might nullify the consequence of your efforts. But could you really blame me?
You’re drawing conclusions from a contest, which from my perspective was never truly had. So, I consider your claims of victory and any superiority to be premature. You can go round and round this merry-go-round as much as you please. But, I will always return to this singular point.
Your boast in the conquest of Niarja is of no consequence until such time as you are presented with the realistic possibility of loosing it - and in that moment demonstrate your capability to maintain ownership of Niarja by force.
stop trying to skirt around the issue. you ARE saying that CCP should undo the efforts of players just for you.
the players took action to flip the system to triglavs. congrats, that’s the new state of the system. you’re asking ccp to undo that under the lie of just calling “ongoing influence”.
you had your shot, and you missed it. whether it was because you were afk or not,it doesn’t matter. players made an impact and a change was set. asking ccp to give YOU a bite at the apple after the event is completely unfair to everyone who already put in the time to win. the event was NOT intended to allow for “ongoing influence”. once it was flipped either way, it was permanent. you keep asking for that permanence to be undone and the only justification you has is “well I wasn’t playing at that time.”
stop lying and stop trying to disguise your position by calling it something other than what it is.