Voter Apathy - Bitter Pills


(Xenuria) #21

Are you contesting that I support an abstain option? Why would I lie about wanting a feature like that? I also clearly articulated how I define an apathetic voter.

(Black Pedro) #22

Yeah. The reality is there just isn’t enough people in highsec, lowsec or wormhole space to elect a candidate even if the someone managed to get them to rally behind a candidate. Part of that is apathy and a lack of cohesion, but the demographics have shifted significantly over the last three or so years and the shrinking of the CSM didn’t help things any. I don’t think highsec “comically outnumbers” nullsec anymore, especially if you factor in multiple accounts common among established players who live in nullsec. Unless you have a gimmick or have some popularity that transcends the general tribalism that pervades the game, you aren’t getting on a 10-person CSM without the backing of a large, organized in-game group.

This is fine and democratic and all, but representative of all types players it is not. CSM 11/12 have shown that a nullsec-heavy CSM can be effective and communicate with all players so this is by no means fatal, but I can’t help but think the CSM would be a more useful body with a little more diversity. But if smaller groups can’t rally around a candidate, I see no way of easily making it so.

You can’t call the inability of small groups and solo players to unify ‘apathetic’ just like you can’t call the voters of a heavily gerrymandered district ‘apathetic’ if they are unable to overcome the deck that is stacked against them. It just is. These are small groups after all, most of who don’t need to talk to each other in-game and may not even know the others exist, or even if they do may have completely different views on who they want to represent them.

That isn’t apathy, that is just the reality of being from a more niche community or small group, or an independent. You’re gonna lose to the big guy, kinda like the rest of Eve. One could make the argument that the more neglected these disenfranchised communities are, the more niche they become as people leave the game or move somewhere else like nullsec, in some detrimental feedback loop, but I’ll leave this post here as it is long enough.

(Lord Hikan) #23

Dude, Please go look at the numbers released, Only 10-12K of those votes came from null, 5000 from WH’s and about 2000 from LS.

That leaves near on 10K votes coming from Hisec, that is more than enough to elect somebody if Hisec wished to do so. So NO, It is not a lack of people, It is a lack of co-ordination and willingness to rally being put in from the HS peoples.

(Nunosh) #24

I must be checking something else because I didn’t noticed the origin alocation of the votes. Where did you saw it?

(MinerArt) #25

This doesn’t really tally alts.

(Sean Stanson) #26

Why do you think this demographic is significant in size to actual voters and/or the other two groups you mentioned? Their relatively large reddit presence?

(Arthur Aihaken) #27

Next CSM election have a disband the CSM option and see how many players vote for that candidate…

(DisbandTheCSM ForCSM14) #28

Announcing My Candidacy Now. Make sure to vote for me next year !

(Arthur Aihaken) #29

You have my vote!

(MinerArt) #30

Tell them second carrier on the left.

(Black Pedro) #31

I am sure the numbers are there if you could magically rally every person, but highsec activity (based on jumps and NPC kills) is down like 40-50% since 2014-15 and the CSM is much smaller then when highsec representatives did get elected. Nullsec activity is up over that time.

It isn’t increased apathy that explains why we see no new highsec representation on the CSM - it’s just math. Smaller, ununified groups are already at a disadvantage and that was before the bar was raised even higher by shrinking the council.

If we had 14 members like before, @Lorelei_Ierendi would be on the council but she is not.

(Kaivarian Coste) #32

You have to ask yourself what would “high-sec” gain even if they do get people elected? For most high seccers, Eve is just a game they login to. If CCP screws up, they’ll just play something else. The only people driven to succeed in the CSM are those who’ve invested their very identity into Eve (kinda like the freaks at Star Citizen).

edit: I wasn’t replying to you specifically

(Lorelei Ierendi) #33

That is true. This would have been my fourth election. @Mike_Azariah was a high-sec type candidate… and iirc it took him 4 tries to get elected… so the rubrik remains. High sec candidates need something like 4 years to get into the top 14.

But then I (think that I) still had less votes this year than anywhen else.

The long term goal, if the CSM is going to be a thing, would be to get the non-block players interested in voting - at all. There are so many different interest groups out there… some of whom seem to be mutally hostile to one another, that we need to first increase numbers of people vote at all before we start fighting over the scraps that are out there (so to speak).

@Lord_Hikan Trying to take “High Sec” as a “block” is not going to go the way you think.

(Lorelei Ierendi) #34

High sec would gain the chance to stop whining about EVE only being about null sec.
For those of us here engaging in the game, this would be huge.

(Buoytender Bob) #35

I wouldn’t (and don’t) care where the each CSM member comes from in EVE as long as they made an effort to represent all the aspects of EVE gameplay, instead of gathering intel and pushing for enhancements for their own cliques and space. With a few notable exceptions this CSM, like the ones before it, is full of people who have a documented history of utter disdain and contempt toward those who may enjoy aspects of EVE outside the nullsec experience. If I could be assured that a CSM member would think of the entire game’s overall health and opportunities; using their power (such as it is) to make the whole game healthy and not just their part of it, I would feel better about the most recent election. Based on old CSM meeting notes and public postings by many of the new (and old) members, I am not encouraged.

(Brisc Rubal) #36

You’re likely going to have to use your main character name.

(DisbandTheCSM ForCSM14) #37

Not a well known name, So I don’t fall under that ruling. + This appeals to the masses that want the CSM abolished :stuck_out_tongue:

(Penance Toralen) #38

A one-ear’d man complaining in the land of the deaf.

They don’t hear you, they didn’t hear CCP’s vote message, and the bonus, they will never hear Goon gloating.

(Alaric Faelen) #39

One thing Xenuria also leaves out is expertise. The success of Goonswarm is due to people being good at the game. It’s the exact same set of rules everyone plays under, yet one group breeds success orders of magnitude greater than everyone else.
You want your CSM to be an expert at the game. Clearly GSF has that expertise on staff. GSF not only does, but excels at pretty much all available content in Eve so calling them a ‘null bloc’ is ignorant. They do everything in the game, and do it on an industrial scale. So go ahead and grrr gewns all you want, you got a CSM of people that are better at the game than you, and often times better than the devs at anticipating and adapting to new content/updates/patches.
This is not new to a video game. You tend to look to elect leadership in the real world (hopefully) on their ability to demonstrate subject matter expertise and leadership. You can still be jealous of their wealth and power, but at the same time remain totally dependent on them.
Lastly, the CSM is a reflection of the active playerbase. Anyone that hears about Eve that doesn’t already play the game did so because something happened in null sec. Someone flipped a director, welped a capital fleet, invaded so and so’s space, threatened to cut off someone’s hands…no one is jumping into Eve because of the thrilling adventures of lone guy in mom’s basement endlessly shooting rocks in a .7 system belt. Left to those people, Eve would have died two years after release.
You have a CSM with people that know better than CCP what direction to take Eve. CCP knows this and announces all their proposed updates to the players to fix already. It’s hilarious how much of their jobs they rely on the players to accomplish for them.

(Gabriel Eban) #40

“Based on the numbers I would say HS could actually put 4 people on and bump off a goon if they actually organized.”

The problem with this is that people only organize behind common goals or a leadership structure. People don’t spontaneously organize. HS is populated by people with a wide variety of goals and so little common ground can be achieved. That’s a big part of why HS never organizes that way.

If CSM has done so much for so many as some posts hint at, then I would say the negative opinions about them are the CSM’s own fault. They have never successfully marked themselves as something beneficial to the majority of players. They have spent most of their time marketing to Null and so Null has more interest in it. Mix that with Null’s Alliance structure then you have a leadership system in place to organize votes behind. That’s something that will never exist in HS.

The biggest issue is WHY the apathy persists and not simply that it does exist. If an opinion about a system persists then it’s a real thing regardless if others disagree with the opinion. Simply disagreeing means nothing.

Lastly, many players don’t care about null bs or pvp. It’s really just that simple. They never will either. Nothing you do will change that. That’s not actually a bad thing. It’s actually good for the game. Because of that, they will not take any interest in what you do regarding the “culture” of EVE. That culture also has a terrible reputation so I would keep that in mind as well.