Also, it’s pretty dishonest of you to keep complaining about “THINK OF THE NEWBIES” when I offered you an alternate war system that gave 100% immunity to newbies and it wasn’t good enough for you because it didn’t do enough to protect veteran players who dislike disruptions to their PvE farming.
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As I’ve stated many times before, this isn’t a problem inherent with EVE, it’s a problem with the new generation of gamers. Gamers that want instant gratification and hand-holding. That’s not what EVE was built on…
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Again, the players who do join to pvp are completely ignored by those who want to make things safer for new players.
But then, just like these victims, they are hypothetical.
But why shouldnt they be included in the leaving count?
Why should their playstyle require a 500m structure?
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Maybe you’ll get your wish for a completely safe EVE Online experience 20 years from now when Zoomers are running CCP…
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I would love for them to face a challenge. Fortunately the mechanics already exist for this to happen, we don’t need to nerf PvP even more just because useless highsec perma-victims refuse to take advantage of the tools they already have.
When I joined EVE was pretty much it for elite style space MMOs. Now it’s not and it’s pretty expensive compared to rival games.
Oh really? What game exists that can compare to EVE? There are various PvE-focused space games, but nothing even remotely close to what EVE does.
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New players asking for changes should be more open to what’s on offer, instead of asking to reduce the possibilities.
how many vets of 8-10 years (and longer) are there in other online games ? And calling them “relatively new vets” is just a tad ludicrous, there is no such thing as a new vet.
I see many in the help channel that downloaded the game without knowing what it was. Shall we cater for those too ? Others are attracted by the videos of big battles. You know, if people aren’t willing to pay their dues, learn, climb up the greasy pole they won’t have a game like EvE, let alone the big battles. There’s expectations, and then there’s the reality check. Change the nature of the game and its uniqueness, which attracts most new players, will be lost. There’s far better ways to incorporate new players than making the game soft, plenty of suggestions in this thread.
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Stop lying. I proposed a system that would give literal 100% war immunity to all new players unless they specifically choose to enable participation in wars, but that wasn’t good enough for you because it didn’t give enough immunity to experienced PvE farmers who want to opt out of all PvP. It is very obvious that “but think of the newbies” is just your excuse to buff highsec farming.
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Fixed that for you. One thing never changed though, It is a tough game, with one of the best communities on the planet.
Pretty much the summary of this thread. Unlike some, I won’t be repeating myself if I can help it. I’ve said my thing 
Someone posted above that structures must always remain war eligible, even lower class ones. Well that’s up for debate, if lowest tier structures that offer the least advantage and don’t claim moons/territory should make a player corp war eligible.
An alternative to changing structures in this way is to focus on war fee changes.
The war dec fee changes I suggested are supposed to help with this. At least cut back on wars against low value targets such as newer corps. Because they’re not worth the expense of declaring the war in the first place.
Contracted targets would still happen, because as was said earlier, they would add the additional fee to the costs. There’s no problem with any of that. It’s unlikely anyone would pay to contract mercs against new players anyway.
The only issue with keeping all structures war eligible, and focusing on changing the fee structure, is that it still doesn’t stop them from creating smaller groups of mercs for the low war dec fee and mass deccing new corps.
However, if you used the original idea, that each additional active war you maintain adds 10m to the costs of the next war, that does help quite a bit in reducing decs against low value new corps. You could even set the fee higher than 10m. Set it to 20m
Then, each additional war you have active (excluding wars declared against you) adds 20m to the cost of the next war dec. With this change alone, if you had 100 wars, the war fee would be 2.1 billion isk. It would be in the best interests economically speaking for the mercs to declare war on targets that are worthwhile. Such as, targets they are paid to go after, alliances, or other large or rich groups.
In addition to this, it would be useful to scale the war fee with the number of players in the corp or alliance. And in such a way that war fee costs are actually most efficient by maintaining a smaller corp membership, say under 50 or 100 for the best efficiency. So that way, it stops encouraging mercs to all band together into a single mega coalition, since financially this will be less efficient, not more efficient.
Because they were mining AFK and got popped by a Trig patrol or FOB rats…
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How so? Have I in any way suggested removing the ability to fight back? Have I proposed a mechanic where people who want to kill the “bullies” can not declare a war of their own? What challenge do you want them to have that can not exist under the current mechanics?
Elite Dangerous is a pretty good example.
Doesn’t it kind of lack EVE’s scale and player-driven economy?
There you go, lying again. You rejected a system that gives 100% immunity to newbies because it doesn’t protect experienced PvE farmers, you don’t give a **** about newbies except as an excuse to buff farmers.
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That’s an awful lot of time wasted on trying to figure out the details of a PvP nerf when you have done nothing to justify the argument that another nerf is necessary when so many tools for dealing with wars already exist.
Nah you’re wrong lol. Sure things get Min-maxed and perfected over time but we’re hardly at a point where Pirat is invincible.
Except I do. It’s common for me and others to offer advice and tips to our targets. We shoot at what is available for us to shoot at. We’ll take more caution of the Hyperion that’s tried to bait us before and make sure we can counter what we expect to come, but we punch up when we can and when there’s opportunity to.
I don’t see how you can complain about this want of reckless abandonment. It literally takes a few keystrokes and a new player would have a decent grasp of what to watch out for.
https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+survive+in+Eve+Online+as+a+new+player
Eve Online has always had a more mature audience. Players that are mostly older in age that don’t feel the need to have their hand held in a theme park. We’ve seen CCP make strides to try and capture the modern gamer and I’m sure it’s a hard thing to do whilst keeping true to the root of the game.
I didn’t say “high quality player” as if Wardecs are grooming targets to be super soldiers in their respective areas. What I mean is that we present a challenge… a threat. If players can overcome this then props to them. They are probably the type of player that is resourceful, motivated, and doesn’t need to squeal to CCP to change the game to make it easier.
I guess that’s an option, but I sincerely hope that a brand new player visiting the forums for the first time isn’t bombarded with your defeatist ideals and decides that there’s zero he can do.
Except we’re not talking about before these changes. We’re talking about the right now. Right now you can hire Pirat to do your bidding such as destroying a War HQ. That War HQ being destroyed grants you 2 weeks of invulnerability. Maybe in those 2 weeks you can allow your players enough room to breathe and farm some ISK all whilst negotiating with your aggressor or working out some kind of protection plan with the mercs.
lol, you’re something else man.
We do from time to time when the opportunity presents itself.
Except I do. Feel free to browse through my post history from around the time CCP made these war hq changes. You can even ask someone for logs from the Wardec Project discord where I explain in detail exactly what is going to happen openly to some of the CSM members.
I am 100% motivated by conflict. Do I enjoy mechanics and situations that I create to gain me an upper hand? Absolutely. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but again most of all I am motivated by conflict and that being a driving force for content.
What fun is all your rock mining and production stuff if there’s not some neat story attached to it at the end? CONFLICT LUCAS. THIS GAME NEEDS CONFLICT.
Something something anecdotal evidence that supports your position lol.
This a thousand times.
Only a fool compares ED to EvE.
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What did you propose, actually? This thread is huge.
Vaporware Star Citizen will suck up players which are undecided thinking of Eve.
Too much money is involved with Star Citizen, it will be an alternative title.
The force driving CCP is the need to always pay employee wages, symptoms are putting stuff on cloud computing to save money. Fallouts are client disconnects and the forever disconnecting chat problems as example. Eve subscription is also not cheap, they need to always get the money in to run the game and pay staff and make some profit.
I would welcome loads more players, I would enjoy gameplay much more with a far larger player base.
We should all want this game to prosper, it needs to get far more beginner friendly and offer additional safe freedom choices. The player should make the choice and decide if he wants to enter unsafe territory or not, engagement should not be forced on to the player. Forcing stuff on to players is old school thinking, my 50 cents.
If you can’t afford $15 a month for a subscription, then there are probably other things you should be doing with your life than playing an online video game…
Here’s another point. How much inflation has there been over the years? I think it used to cost less than 300m for 30 days of game time? Or was it a lot less than that even? Well it costs around 1.6 to 1.8 billion for 30 days now.
How much have war dec fees changed over the years? Used to cost 50m. Upwards of 500m for decs on large alliances? Now it only costs a flat rate of 100m.
Seems to me like there’s more isk in the game than ever before. Yet war costs have not even been close to keeping up with the ever increasing amounts of liquid isk.
Once you factor in just how much isk players have and earn today, war costs are cheaper than they’ve ever been, by a lot.
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In the realm of Highsec combat around Wardecs, it’s about as beginner friendly as you can have it. Unless CCP outright mechanically prevents new characters from joining player corps that are war eligible, it’s pretty safe for new players against wars.
When I say pretty safe I mean it’s 100% safe for new players as all that’s required is for them to not be in a corp that has a structure. These types of corps are advertised all over the place.
I want more players too, but not at the cost of sacrificing the harsh environment of Eve Online.
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Erm no, not exactly. I “escaped” at the time from hisec to nullsec after a particularly unwelcome new wardec (ironic, isn’t it). Fortunately our ceo was a “new vet” with insight, who had made preparations and embedded us with -7- in Provi. We still had to deal with wardecs in -7- occasionally, blocking the pipes to Amarr etc, but by then we had all figured out the obvious ways to deal with that and it became irrelevant.
Some veterans do, indeed. And some newbies do too. If new players on the rookie help channel ask me how to gate camp I give them pointers, even if I myself do not take part in hisec ganking. Some newbies also have no idea how to prevent it (it’s simple, btw). Newbies in corporations however stand far better chances.
One thing you are quite right about is the fact that many newbies don’t even know what player structures entail in terms of wardec’ing, have no idea about consequences and how to avoid. You can say the same thing about triglavian scouts, diamond rats, Sansha operating bases, drifters and sleepers. They gank new players too. Oh, irony, we players didn’t put them there…
I disagree. There’s plenty of posters who treat others with respect as they would in real life. There are also some who don’t, true. And sometimes the fuses burn up if a thread takes too long and becomes a matter of who has final word, epeen and all that. Or if there is only endless repetition of viewpoints and denying what the other side is saying.
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