Ah ok… Sorry, being in Wardec corp myself I assumed I know why we banded together.
It was to make Wardecs easier. Got you.
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Self delusion as to motivation is incredibly common. Though it is possible you personally had some other primary motivation.
The fact that before CCP even touched wars mass war deccing was underway and wardec corps were merging says it all. At most CCP slightly accelerated the process, at best CCP actually slowed the overall issue down.
But trying to pretend that we wouldn’t be here with one mega alliance declaring wars on everyone anyway is just a downright lie,
well, u have to take in count that war changes started with the first patch, when people was screaming to not be able to make “social corp”, to not be able to pve in peace in hig sec , etc etc. Did anyone, at that time, had a guess about what consequences that first patch would had brought? No, there were only all happy and euforious people who was glad that wardecced and merc allies was death. Fair enough, some wardeccer corps adapted mutating theyr playstyle and structure (sometime with some waivers too). Now this statement…
as said before… smart and flexible people adapt and keep up the competition, as they already did once with an awesome and enjoyable result… someone other will keep cry no matter the change.
For first time in eve long story there is the opportunity to stop a war with a counterattack, as well as being able to be absolutely safe in a non npc corp, which are cornerpoints of the whole war system changes.
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As mentioned, I’m more of a fan of scaling the wardec fees than having a hard limit.
In your opinion, what would the big WarDec’ers do if they were limited to just 3 wars per alliance? Would they just disband and form an unofficial ‘on paper’ alliance? I’m guessing that would be what they would do for scaling too so…
That how we did it in the past. If a small wardeccer corp ran into heavy resistance they would call out to other wardeccers to assist. And we would by dropping a war and wardeccing that corp.
But enough of the old. To be honest whatever we are talking regarding the old is pointless.
What it looks like going forward is purely up to CCP. People will adapt, they always do, others that cannot will stop playing. You can never keep everybody happy.
However I am so far happy with the changes and curious to see how far this goes. Having joined PIRAT, being naive as Nyven mentioned. Maybe I am but that was the only way to function given the new Wardec HQ mechanic. It was the only thing that made sense.
The more numbers we have the bigger fleets we can form to defend or attack structures.
The thing is… structures or not people had the ability to band together to fight the blanket wardeccers before as well. They just refused to. Now certainly with the structures being out there the defenders can unite against their enemy and bash a structure.
And once in a while you might even get a fun fight out of it. But I am gonna predict that if you lose more structures over time, your group will just put more effort into growing into an even larger entity to the point where even bonding together won´t be enough to attack you unless one of the really large alliances jumps in and escalates the whole war.
And at that point the already rare fun fights will just completly vanish again.
Looking at the data in more detail, it’s sad to say that PIRAT are the only big wardec group left.
| Group | Wars | Mutual Wars | Members | Last PVP |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| P I R A T | 98 | 0 | 528 | June 19 |
| ZHUANYE SHASHOU | 54 | 0 | 9 | June 19 |
| ZHUAN YE SHA SHOU | 52 | 0 | 7 | June 19 |
| Hollow Chocolate Bunnies of the Apocalypse | 38 | 0 | 7 | May 19 |
| Generic Latin Name | 12 | 12 | 1 | June 17 |
| House of Freedom | 12 | 12 | 3 | Jan 16 |
Those top 6 groups make up just under 60% of all current active wars, and 2 of those groups are not involved in pvp at all, but have mutual wars, most likely to allow easy webbing.
Of the remaining 4, #2 and #3 look like the same players using alts in different Corps and the #3 is declaring war but there’s no war related pvp since April.
Aside from PIRAT, wars are pretty much dead (there are a number of groups with 1-2 wardecs active, but wars as they were before are nerfed to near nothing now).
Pity in my view, but it is what it is.
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Take note: they were killing a structure. Should they concentrate on your fleet instead results could be very different.
But yeah, it looks like everybody had fun.
528… 
You know that means. We are missing 450 people during large Ops.
@March_rabbit Sure… it could have been different. 
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@March_rabbit I Tought This was a wardec changes discussion istead an engagement debriefing.
Agreed, In my personal opinion these changes are just a HUGE nerf to a sandbox content, but is my opinion
Would you feel that way if the total destroyed value in wars was up?
I don’t know if it is or isn’t, but the ratio of wars with things destroyed in them is up significantly. So even with total wars down, the wars that actually produce shooting are likely up a lot.
Hope all is well with you. I saw that you were in a couple of big fights which in hisec is pretty good content. What you saw is what I was hoping would happen and I hope it continues and develops. Glad to see that you enjoyed it and I think that others in your alliance did too, what is your feeling on that? Perhaps my pessimism is incorrect, so I would like to hear your feedback as things develop.
I wanted to enable 5 war decs without requiring a HQ so that small war deckers could still war dec, however I do rather feel that a war HQ is not exactly a major cost. I think from what I see it is fear of a loss. PIRAT are certainly showing them how it should be done and they should not have that fear.
I think the major issue is not so much the larger nullsec entities going after your war HQ’s, as they will to get back at you, but how often is up in the air. I hope they do it every so often and give you good fights and stuff. The issue is the smaller hisec entities, and I think that the killer in terms of this is the inability to rep each other even when allies. It creates another block, most players have what is called the hassle factor, or how many hoops do they have to jump through. So if hisec entities did gang up to fight PIRAT, they would have to combine into one alliance to do so. So most of them won’t.
Apart from that I am pretty happy with the war dec changes and would like to see it develop. It was a bit odd to see so many people start calling it a failure when it has only just started to develop.
Anyway I will be watching what you do with interest, because you are what I would define as a real Eve player, who the game is really for and seeing how you get on with the game as it is, is very important. Thanks for the thoughts.
It is, because citadels are worth killing, but the engagement with defenders that don’t defend is boring.
We’ve switched to clearing structure spam to fund our PVP in low and null and over the last 6 months, our members have gone from empty wallets to continuously having 4-6 Billion ISK on hand.
Our current war is quite fun (War 644984 | zKillboard) but that’s because it’s against a Querious group that happened to have a structure in highsec, but in general, we get more from chatting on voice and roaming after killing a citadel, than we get from defenders. They just don’t defend for the most part and those that do, have no real idea what they are doing.
I kept saying the structures were worth attacking and I kept on having people say no it was boring and they did not make ISK. So good to see this.
I am warning you about the developing attitude that I have picked up in that more people are starting to not bother putting any modules in Athanors and Raitaru’s in hisec, just the clone bay, indy module or refinary. I am not sure what the impact will be too you, as I would think more of the value is in the P4 that drops and of course nullsec and lowsec are normally going to be fitted unless it is the Simple Farmers…
Just looked at your war, looks like good business…, that Azbel, yikes…
Is not only a mere value destroyed, when i say content nerf,im referring at the ability to a small group to invent theirself as a Merc group, or overall at anything related to hig sec pvp. If before there was 5-6 groups, with different playstile and identity, sometime in war each other, and now there is only one, i see this as content and “freedom” nerf.
Go get together 20 guys, call yourself a Merc group and build a reputation.
There is no lack of ability to do that. The fact that there are always targets to hit even if the enemy never undock should even help with that since you can avoid ever having a 0 isk war unless the defenders actually meet you on the field and drive you off with Ewar to defend.
It’s nothing to do with not being able to do that, it’s just easier to take those 20 guys and just join PIRAT and join on their farming instead.
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Agree, u can always try to buid up a new OS company but than u have to compete with 2 major who will just annihilate or eat u up. Same is becoming here, there is a monopoly and everyone outside are cutted out.
Personally, as a PIRAT happy member, i would be very happy to fight with an equal hig sec deccer corp… but those are things of the past.
Declare blanket wars to many corps (check)
Emphasize that you are “heroically fight and lose against 5 vs 1” even you were the one declaring wars (check)
Abuse wardec mechanics to evade 2 weeks cooldown before your HQ goes down (check)
OK you are all good PIRAT , that is a sweet spot of how classy can PIRAT be, good to go 
WarHQs should be one at any given time for each warring side and succesful destruction should really give defenders a chance to have 2 weeks time off. Right now this is not the case. So I am calling it an abuse.
When i was pointing out one HQ at any given time you were just saying :
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They should limit the amount of deccs any Corp can have maybe to 3 a week and after those deccs run out a week cool off period before they can decc again, because if those involved REALLY want war they can always check the “mutual” box.
With your permision i would make some correction.
Oh and there is another one:
Tring to modify a competitive online game in a trash korean mmo farmfest (check)
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