Before you could opt-in with just a POS stick in space that was not outed if you WarDec’ed…now you need a much bigger investment, fee and risk.
Every change is full of opportunity. These fools requiring stacked logi to win will die out. Then the skilled can shine.
Right, but with the previous system there was no opt-in requirement outside of just joining a player corp, now you have to manually opt-in, and if you’re going to be fighting a war why are they going to restrict it to POS which are due to be removed, you need an actual structure
And that is the crux (one at least) of the matter; the need for a 500-1.5B station. It’s a significant barrier to entry that will turn off many from stations as they don’t want to risk them…or keep the same method of hiding them with holding corps so your main players can stay protected in NPC corps.
Little wars between HS corps is a great idea and should be encouraged…this however does the opposite I fear.
Don’t get me wrong, the old system was horrible and the next system better (as they were cheap). This goes too far though IMO…too much at risk.
It would be great if the WarDec was tied to who you could actually WarDec. ie yo can only WarDec those that have X times more assets in space than your corp. But I digress…
If you don’t want to risk it then why are you starting a war where you can end up risking far more? you seem to want a war where there are no real consequences or risks, that isn’t a war thats just arranged PvP
They are free to start a mutual war if they like, but if you want to be able to wardec random corps without their consent then you need to have the balls to risk losing something of value
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Risk isn’t binary it’s graduated. Before there was no risk, then a little now a lot and there could be many other steps too. If you wanted to encourage little HS fisticuffs between corps is the current system likely to encourage that or not. I’d say the latter and that’s not good.
I agree…but why are we starting at the 600M to 1.5B range? That’s a huge number for small fries in HS. Also, should what you are risking be relative to what you are facing? Me WarDec’ing Marmite (for example) should not be he same as them WD’ing me. THAT is the problem but then times that by dozens and dozens of WDs by these monster sharks…
Risk is good (and needed) but it needs to be relative to the circumstance. I totally agree that you need skin the the game if you want to play…
I can pull the latest wars again, if you want to?
I’ve pulled them some months ago, i think it was january?
Could check where the code is and update the list.
Not that I want to. 
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That’s intentional. They’ve intentionally made sure people group up even tighter. It’s a no-brainer. People complaining about how they warned CCP, were being ignored and CCP then subsequently doing it anyway are completely missing the point.
It appears that the goal is getting rid of it alltogether. Considering that NPCs are the way for CCP to move forward with controlled destruction, you can figure out yourself why Wars are like they are now.
They’re definitely not like this to get people to fight and even less so to curb structure spam.
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It’s neither victimisation nor gaming the system to pvp in a pvp game.
Wardecs are OPT-IN and always have been.
Anyone whining about being decced should check their entitlement.
So yeah, wars were already opt in.
We didn’t need to tie it to structures. We just needed the social corps.
Well in this case the risk is a structure, if you aren’t happy losing a structure then wars aren’t really for you
Like i said, the mutual wardec system exists, if you want fisticuffs you can do it without needing to risk things other than your ships, you just need to find someone who wants that
600m isn’t really that much, i can make that in a few days if i wanted to without too much effort, at the end of the day if you’re too small to be able to afford an astra then you’re probably too small to be worry about expensive wardecs, you can join FW or find a group who wants to start a mutual war with you, there are options
Why should it be any different exactly? the requirements to start a war apply to everyone, its no different than casino’s having a minimum buy-in, doesn’t matter how big or small you are you need to have a minimum bet on the table
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So then this is purely binary for you…ok that’s fine but I hope that in 2019 devs could be a bit more creative.
A lot of new people can’t so…it’s not about you or me but the newer players that are too scared to leave NPC corps. It’s also not just about PvP but fighting over belts and possible even station locations to some degree (once the get more confident).
Except casinos have tables with different table limits…so the $5 guys can play and the $5000 guys can play with limits known in advance.
like @Solstice_Projekt said…it seems CCP is pushing HS in one direction yet claiming another direction is desirable. We’ll see hoe June goes but I would say this change is pretty bad…
I’d like to add that the new War system removes yet another way of random social interactions.
BigMouths who talk ■■■■, while being in a player corp, now require a structure to get smacked for their ■■■■■■■■. Considering the fact that people can just hide their structures in a holding corp, the ability to teach these people respect has been reduced.
I remember some of these guys.
They’ve always believed to be invincible until proven otherwise.
This is wonderful, this new thing and requires people learn courage or adapt, imo.
All they will do is (continue to)use a holding company and NPC corps…problem solved for them but it makes HS even worse…
high sec pvp would be fun? I think small gang wormhole pvp will be the thing for those interested in killing others.
It makes sense and requires more wit.
Spamming dscan and 5 other things while killing a group?
I also don’t understand why someone can’t even opt-in to being eligible to receive wardecs.
This sounds like the complete opposite of what they intended happened. Not that like almost everyone who had any clue about wardecs told them this from the start.
Sadly I don’t think they will roll anything back even if this was a complete and utter failure.
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Agreed that the ongoing changes seem to be headed in the wrong direction.
Very much like the sliding scale for Wardecs, which makes sense both from game mechanics and ‘game immersion logic’ view.
Still think they need to make fundamental changes to other systems (rather than just how wars are declared/maintained/ended) in the game in order to encourage more PvP.
I’m kinda torn on this. On the one hand, I’ve seen CCP really, really miss the boat on ‘targeting change X to counter situation Y’ in the past… so I am not completely writing “CCP just doesn’t get it, and doesn’t even know how to find out the things they don’t know” out of the picture.
But I am pretty worried that Solstice is correct here, and that CCP has a direction/development path laid out that is counter to what their words and statements indicate. Sadly, CCP appears some time ago to have developed a mindset that “EVE is all about PvP, and PvP means Programmers/Planners Vs Players”.
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Far from true, I’m afraid. Literally tens of thousands of corps have been deciminated, and at least a thousand or so players have permanently ragequit EVE because war was imposed on them when they weren’t ready for or simply weren’t interested in PVP. I mean sure you could argue that they could have stayed in the NPC corp, but I do not consider this a valid argument. That is far too restricting to self-impose on yourself just to avoid wars.
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A lot of you guys are expressing concern that the new wardec system castrates war in HS. It might be worth considering that this isn’t necessarily a bad thing (as long as the castration isn’t -too- extreme). Let me explain what I mean: We all know that, to an extent far greater than any other MMO or RPG, EVE rewards those who take risks. Players who confine themselves to PVE and HS are at a severe disadvantage to players who venture out to do PVP in LS/NS where, as I mentioned earlier, most of the action and “real wars” do and should take place anyway. In this regard, HS has always been and will always be a comfort zone, and fielding a POS, in HS or elsewhere, is a major step toward getting out of that comfort zone that makes you liable to experience PVP.
I guess what I’m saying is that a drop of both good and bad wars in HS doesn’t mean conflict in EVE has dropped, just that it has relocated to LS/NS where most of it should be anyway, and has been refocused onto those who, by objective criteria, “deserve” to be liable for PVP: POS fielders. If you stick your dick out like a nail, expect it to be hammered down.
Also, there is one aspect of the new system that is easy to overlook where the defenders are at a disadvantage: because the pool of qualified defenders has dropped dramatically, this sharply increases the attacker-defender ratio with regards to aggressive groups preying on smaller groups. There is a strong possibility that these changes have made fielding a POS in HS more challenging than it was previously, but this could be counteracted by partnering with other groups, joining an alliance, etc - increasing collaboration and strengthening community relationships toward a common cause. Also, this greatly reduces the occurrence of “faildecs” where defender groups are constantly evading the aggressors: Unless they want to decommission their POS (not an easy feat during wartime), it is a guaranteed juicy target for the aggressor, thereby guaranteeing the war will be worth it for them as opposed to the ridiculously high number of wars previously that amounted to zero kills and zero losses on both sides.
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Maybe to protect idiots who’d flip the switch.
Or maybe to protect idiots from awoxers who’d flip the switch.
Or … maybe … both.
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