His two ideas (slowing down combat and speeding up/streamlining skill progression) are actually incidentally very good; they’re just founded on a very flawed premise. The reason why most new players quit isn’t because “the veterans are farming the noobs.” Most new players never even get to experience PvP in any shape or form before they quit; they just hear about it in the papers, and extrapolate the alleged experiences of a small handful of other players to themselves, basing their decisions on hypothetical situations they’ve never had to deal with. Kind of like hearing from someone that a neighborhood is bad and then deciding not to go there, instead of looking up some actual statistics and/or checking it out for themselves before coming to the same conclusion.
The reason why most new players quit is because most of them get absolutely no meaningful guidance from anyone. The average new player experience consists of joining a small high-sec mining corporation, and then getting yelled at by a megalomaniac armchair commander whose claim to authority is their “career in the military,” which in reality was dropping out after 7 weeks in basic, or maybe at best driving a fuel truck on some reserve base for 2 years as a PFC. The “new player” gameplay loop consists of being harassed to meet mining quotas, and being told to log off for a week along with the rest of the corporation each time a suspect baiter appears in local.
Most of the people posting on this forum talking about the “new player problem” have no clue what that problem actually is, because they’re so far removed from the new player experience after years of grinding PvE in their one-man private corporations.
Lucky for me, I joined with a group of others. So how do you fix that. Not the 1st time it’s been brought up.
Guilty. But then I’m a psychopathic baby seal clubbing mother beating child raping father stabbing…
And I went up there, I said, “Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
Wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
Guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL.” And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL, " and
He started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
Yelling, “KILL, KILL.” And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
Sent me down the hall, said, “You’re our boy.”
You never read my bio?
Yet “I” don’t pick on noobs and even help those who I can. What more should I be doing?
as I return I go this…is different. google and patch notes are being read. As I go I swear this had a slot here…right? google says yes, it did. now it doesn’t.
I did drop in to know of trigs, edoncom and scarcity in the past. other stuff is now being picked up on as its a more permament return.
Still not the same as learning it yourself. Google/Youtube does help but best used afterwards. Besides doesnt the Corp Eveuniversity EVE’s premier teaching organization teach the basics to their Members?
You can’t, without significantly restricting the game’s freedom by placing limitations on who can start corporations.
A couple of weeks ago, I encountered a corporation by a relatively new player. He tried to run it like some kind of big-shot real-life enterprise-slash-utilitarian-commune, but really it was just an unwitting pyramid scheme. His new “employees” had to donate like 60% of their mined minerals for a few weeks before they got access to “benefits,” which consisted of having to donate slightly less. He would collect everything and then give people “paychecks.” People had to “work” 6 days a week, as in log in and mine for multiple hours a day, with one day per week “off.” Senior employees were allowed “two days off per week.” People had to submit requests for leave time, were given performance reviews, etc.
Keep in mind this was literally a two-week-old player trying to run this thing, and he didn’t even know how to fit a Venture properly yet. As is expected, completely war-immune, so I couldn’t put this monstrosity out of its misery. It folded on its own a few weeks later, and all the members quit the game.
How much damage to the game do these people do? No one bothers to ask this question, but there’s a lot of them out there, and they certainly affect significantly more new players than the minuscule amount of ganks targeted toward new players on average.
You don’t educate them, because as you said, they don’t want to learn. What you do is prevent them from operating, so that they can’t cause this sort of community damage. In the old days, we could consistently take down these groups, liberating their members to pursue membership in better organizations. They experienced the full scope of the game quickly, and went on to pursue knowledge with groups like Brave (we’d often tell them in local that their corporation/alliance is flawed, and would refer them to better groups at the time). Yes, some would still instantly quit after the “trauma,” but the ratio was smaller. Today, when one of these garbage groups collapses, every single person stops playing because logging in to meet their Veldspar quota is all they knew since their first day in the game.
Maybe something like “achievement requirements” to start corporations would work (e.g. a set of gameplay milestones everyone has to achieve before the corporation creation function becomes available to them), but they’d complain about this a lot, and it would be easy to cheat anyway.
This is particularly an EVE problem. In other games (e.g. WoW), players don’t all quit when their guild leadership is incompetent and the guild collapses, because those games create other ties to the core gameplay loop(s) than just the immediate social environment.
Hahahaha, Battle for azeroth then shadowlands did some damage to where even fall back crews didn’t keep people. Dragonflight I tried and said they tried…but it wasn’t a homerun. More like a double. Not only my feelings there.
The Game is at the point eve players seem nicer lol. both versions oddly enough. faction warfare will ask a player can you at least fly this (posts a t1 noob fit)? yes. welcome newbro.
gearscore came back in wrath round 2. retail has raiderio. pvp has ratings. all games make newer player runs interesting really. CCP didn’t patent that one.
this was how my eve returned happen. slow as hell in both wow versions and tired of overt meta chasing. I hopped in eve if only to see it on a new actualy modern new computer bought… and found a spark. that grew.
Now am I saying eve is perfection? No. I saw they are trying and pressed the “i believe” button 1 more time.
MMO’s are a dying breed. that be all of them. they surge, and they see drops offs. this isn’t an eve only issue.
but eve has the buffer of sunk cost fallacy lol. 13 years later…star citiizen is a meme still. and the only pvp centric pvp mmo I know of on the horizon is AoC (ashes of creation). eve in a fantasy setting is loosely what it looks like. and also on the star citizen plan from crowd funding so yeah…I will believe it when I see it.
Uh, I got some news for you, AoC isn’t exactly a “PvP game” anymore. They’ve basically added a version of the “PvP toggle” to the game. Yeah, you’ll technically be able to kill other players, but unless they’re flagged, the consequences will be so catastrophic that you won’t be able to play in practice. It will be much more like ESO/New World now. All of their media and all of the forum discussions have been so heavily bombarded with anti-PvP rhetoric, that they’ve already caved. I’m not even following that game anymore.
From what I’ve been told, it’s going to be vastly more punitive than even EVE’s system. Kill a few unflagged players, and you’ll need to spend many days working it off. And it’s not going to be like in EVE, where you become an outlaw in high-sec but can still do things there, and can operate normally in all other areas of space; the debuff is going to be worldwide for you in AoC. Also, unflagged players drop fewer items and have smaller penalties than “corrupted” players, who drop pretty much everything and get a 300% penalty bonus.
This game was supposed to be an open-world PvP mecca, and they turned it into a carebear game already, like five years before its release.
Just use bigger ships, frigates are very fast to wreck each other, but not cruisers+.
As a ruthless alpha in FW, if I kill someone and they’re new and they are nice about losing a ship, I quite often reimburse them fully, even if it’s something like an Imperial Navy Slicer that I kill in my Magnate.
No. Just no. Engagement profile is everything. The “best” fit doesn’t exist. Also, ships with better stats are usually more micromanagement-intensive and have high skill entry levels, making them absolutely garbage for new players. Give them a dual web plated pulse Punisher or something like that. Gives my really nasty Merlin a real run for its money. I’d probably lose to a T2 fitted pulse web scram plated Punisher.
Waaaaait a second aren’t you one of the single best players in the entire game zKill-wise?
I actually remember fighting you years ago, you were in Arnon in a dual rep Incursus (I later figured out) suspect baiting SOEers. I died in my T1 rail Catalyst.
Me and my big mouth. 
