Hope springs eternal!

Regular forum readers will probably recall that I frequently post criticizing CCP for game design flaws or business practices that negatively impact EVE, their IP and it’s reputation.

Some will recall that I also spend a fair bit of time arguing with people who try to blame EVE’s decline on “the players”. While players do have a certain amount of responsibility for some areas, I believe that EVE has succeeded because of the players, often in spite of CCP’s actions.

To that point, I was really pleased today to run into the following post on Reddit. (Hopefully I will be forgiven if re-posting Reddit stuff or Goonswarm stuff is a no-no.) Basically, it says “it’s time for a new era of player-driven content”.

I just hope they can pull it off, and inspire others to do the same.


He basically said 'let us have more conflicts to get our enemies to want revenge not for what we do out of game but for what we do in-game".

That’s nice and all that but aren’t they also affected by low player count or are they so big that it doesn’t affect them?

As long as it does not devolve into tidi lagfests, it could be great.

Well, I think you may have missed the point. But sure, hit us up with the deets of the Halo match you fought 5 or more years ago that really stands out in your memory.

Then scroll down that Reddit thread and note how many people are recalling individual battles from 5, 10 even 15 years ago.

"Until they’ve optimized every last bit of fun out of the game. How many of you here who played Age of Empires or Starcraft can say you didn’t do exactly that. When the game let you, you made your army so big that by the time you finally attacked your CPU foe they had absolutely no chance. "

Another bad example. Starcraft meta to is not set in stone and still shifts every now and then, even to this date. Starcraft is known for creative plays, even on the highest, most optimized levels - offering a whole platera of plays and counterplays. Also playerbase is still decent and matchmaking does work real good matching u into corresponding skill.

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I’m skeptical.

(Note: All my links are solely to mirrors of previous Official Eve Online forums.)

When I joined in 2010, this was the group that was already commonly known to say their goal was to “ruin eve”. Right before I took a break in 2012 their (ex) leader created a controversy (to put it very lightly) and that culture was reinforced on the eve forums – read the thread. I believe this was also around peak harassment time. I came back and am now in a corp with a very rich history of BoB’s early PVP stories and have heard “wonderful” tales of IRL harassment and RL friendships ruined as I have been learning the oral history.

I’m not surprised folks these days are generally ignorant of history, and wishing to continue building an Empire whose foundation are ashes of negativity. Merely because of sheer organizational inertia. However, that doesn’t change the past. The (new) Goon leadership group has only proven what they will lay in bed with in the past, and their change was to… “policy” and “new oversight group”. No retrospection, no reflection, no accountability for themselves. They can make enticing speeches like this that I would like to hold as genuine but perhaps my 10-year gap brings out my old-timer “smells like subterfuge” suspicion. It takes actions, not words.

Nothing against any specific person in Goon leadership. I am sure they are mostly chill folks now, just with a very baggaged name. My perspective of Goons is just teleported from 2012 due to the break.

"So many ways to play this game…

Some play to win at all costs.

Some play to grief others.

Some play to watch the pretty colors when they pop"
~ CrackZilla

I like that post from that thread , Io_Koval.
I belong to the third group :grinning:


" Eve Online is a game that delivers greater experiences than any other game"

No doubt it delivers great experiences but “greater than any other game”?


Not that I care about the specific examples, but he’s literally talking about playing against the AI campaign in the part you quoted, while you’re going on about competitive multiplay.

Reading comprehension, oh how I miss thee!

I’ve read it but it didnt made much sense comparing the singleplayer of Starcraft or even worse AoE to EvE in the first place…

I mean it is nice speech, but why the need to sht on other (legendary) games?

The reason I argue that the players are a large part of the problem is because this very forum makes that so abundantly obvious. The entire ‘Eve is doomed’ thing becomes self fulfilling after a while. It is poisoning the well.

Sure…but then that’s precisely what I’ve been saying for weeks. The doom and gloom merely ends up being self perpetuating and itself creating a downward spiral. Sure there are problems with Eve, but nothing like as much as some make out…and it is time the players shook themselves out of this spiral and themselves created new content and ways to play that inspire to keep people playing.

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Well, let’s say I’m applauding the intent and the manner of delivery of his goals, rather than what I expect will actually happen in-game as a result.

Goons have certainly been hit by player count drops, like the rest of EVE. But they do have enough numbers that they can certainly be a powerful force even after the drops.

And TBH, I myself am not trying to rally players to re-sub and play more (rather the opposite), because I believe EVE needs a serious dip in player interest in order to shake CCP (and PA) out of their complacency.

That said, Asher is calling for:

  • Players to sub up, fleet up, and join actual fights without needing them to be guaranteed wins.
  • He’s putting all his potential foes on notice that they’d better be prepared for some action.
  • He’s reminding a lot of players about when and why they originally enjoyed EVE and hoping to spark some of that feeling again.
  • He’s providing leadership, direction, and hope for some interesting action to his own and other alliances.
  • He’s subtly thumbing his nose at CCP for sitting back and not providing leadership, direction and hope.

Maybe he’s tilting against windmills. Maybe he’s whistling in the wind. But at least he’s trying to get some action rolling, and I can certainly respect that.

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Weren’t you the one that pushed back against me saying:

I would have thought that your line of reasoning would be “people that aren’t logging in for safe battles are not going to log in for dangerous ones”.

I’m happy to be wrong. Just surprised is all.

So you read it wrong, I guess, or just have a tendency to interpret things negatively. He’s trying to give an inspirational speech, not assemble a fact-filled analysis of individual games.

He literally says other games are more fun to play in the short term, so he’s not shltting on anything. He doesn’t say Halo is bad, he says “do you remember the details of an individual match from 5 years ago?”. He’s not saying Starcraft has bad gameplay, he’s pointing out a common player tendency to fort up, build overwhelming strength, and then go on the attack - thereby eliminating all risk.

Basically he’s saying he wants Goonswarm to take risks and create powerful memories, and all you’re getting out of that is “he’s shltting on other games”. Whatever, that’s fine. Some people just like to argue over niggling details and misperceptions, feel free to go to it!

PS: You still haven’t given us the details of that awesome Halo match you played 5 or more years ago.


All that sounds good. Maybe he’s realizing that something has to happen before total apathy sets in and the game start to really be hurting for lack of new exciting stuff like wars and territorial encroachment.
I hope it’s not all wind. Big corporations have everything to gain by reviving hope that EVE hasn’t reached it’s twilight.

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I remember my big brother playing halo in his room with his friends. I wasn’t allowed in his room so all I could do was listen to them cheer and swear like sailors. :sweat_smile:

… and it’s time that CCP move their butt to make it happen too. They hold the tools to make EVE great and facilitate players’ interaction and progress and a whole slew of other things.
It’s time that CCP side with their players instead of making enemies of them.


Nope. People make a lot of assumptions about what they think I’m saying and rarely pay attention to what I’m actually saying. Plus, context is important.

In the quote you post, I was originally talking about “institutionalizing bullying in-game” which was a reference to the ecosystem approach of wolves and sheep in high sec I’d made earlier. When you then talked about “me and others hoping to turn more people on to PvP”, I believe you were referring to a much different type of PvP than ganking Ventures or industrials in high sec.

Be that as it may, Asher’s speech is actually a callout to the Goons who’ve stopped playing because they were disenchanted with the “play it safe, take no risks” doctrines. And there’s more of those than you might think (at least from my own personal experience).

So seeing someone say “we have the wealth and we can get more, let’s take the risks with it” is pretty much what EVE should be about.

As I said, since the game mechanics haven’t changed, and even one large alliance can only do so much, I’m not expecting a big turnaround from this. But it’s at least a very good sentiment to express.

(And I noted your skepticism based on the Goon’s past and that’s certainly worthy of note. Personally I believe both EVE goons and even Something Awful have moved away from where they were back in the bad ol’ days, as linked in your old EVE thread:
Mutilated Furries, Flying Phalluses: Put the Blame on Griefers, the Sociopaths of the Virtual World | WIRED )



Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

At least her posts are informative and good reads. Not like your worthless trollish posts.