What has made Eve Great in the past and Idea's to make Eve Epic

pvp

(Makshima Shogo) #1

Hi guy’s, the purpose of this thread is to narrow down Idea’s and paths to making Eve Epic again and fresh by adapting what we already have with some adjustment’s and game-play change’s, the notes on the meeting look good but at the same time, each section focus’s on different area’s of the game and only 1 has an overall effect (most effect for time spent doing changes):

• Nullification (Nullsec)
• Wardecs (Highsec)
• FW (LowSec)
• Fatigue (Nullsec)
• Dedicated balance team. (Overall)

These are all great topics, but they are missing something vital that eve has lost over the last few year’s and that is game play that enhance’s pilots power through skill (flying skill) Eve is one of the only games where the better you are the higher your chance of beating multiple opponent’s at the same time and this is what makes eve so great.

It inspires players to get better and to enhance their skill’s to one day be one of the great’s, remember when God’s Cold blood released his vindicator pvp video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPCuA5kMxuU (the original was a lot easier to see xD), it was inspiring it gave people a goal a focus and determination to be the best, there have been many video’s since that have been good but there has been less and less solo play over the year’s and that is because eve mechanic’s don’t give power to great pilot’s anymore, If someone tried to do that now with a vindicator it would be a video of someone sitting there perma jammed by ecm for 5 minutes while people piled on to whore on the kill mail. Other video’s including kiting and sig tanking, but that would not work in eve 2018 unless your in a Orthrus/Garmur but that’s not really skill.

The two area’s that take away from great piloting skill are:
Drone (Ridiculously good) tracking
Rapid lights (Ridiculously good) Projection

The effects of these two things is that one cannot simply fly well to avoid/reduce damage anymore, if these two things where brought back to balance, the state of PvP would rise drastically and be a lot more fun again.

The effect of these two things also force’s players to overwhelm players with numbers rather than tactics and strategy, and number warfare is no where near as fun as strategy.

My suggestion’s are to:

Change drone mechanic’s so that they don’t fire while approaching and instead wait till they start orbiting and gain angular velocity before they fire, this will have great effects on pvp. Players will be forced to use the right size drones on their target instead of a one size fits all approach, which requires greater skill and planning, a positive thing without making drones too weak.

Rapid lights just need an explosion radius increase so that they don’t overpower every single small ship in the game with oppressive damage.

Last night I used a 16k ehp svipul against an Orthrus, he jumped the gate and immediately started pulling range traveling at 4508m/s with a zor implant and 1 other this is without even using snake’s, this was confirmed with the Pinecone pilot in local, no chance in hell of catching it or holding it but the worst part was that in about 7 seconds I had to warp out becuase my shields where melting so fast, If I where using an Inti with less tank I would have melted even quicker even with the -75% sig reduction as Rapid light explosion radius is so low that you cant really get much damage reduction even with a full halo set.

The resulting effect is that you have a ship that moves faster than 99% of all cruisers except for the Cynabal, which means the only thing that can tackle it dies horribly to its weapon system (Rapid Lights) and anything that can challenge it Dps Projection wise, cannot hold it down and so it can warp off with ease no weakness’s.

The cerb using the same weapon system moving at only 2km’s is no where near as broken but, because of the weapon system smaller ships don’t stand a chance of landing tackle and holding it for a period of time, I understand that AF’s where recently released with Assault damage controls which might have been designed to hold tackle against these monster’s but I don’t recall a Single AF able to catch a 4508m/s Orthrus, 30 seconds will only delay its inevitable death.

A simple nerf to Orthrus speed + a nerf to Rapid light missile explosion velocity would bring things back into reality, it would still be strong without being oppressive.

One thing to note was that caldari was serverly lacking in PvP dominance before Rapid lights existed so to give them some more options, it would be great to decrease explosion radius of heavy assault’s as they already have the weakness of short range but have absolutely horrible projection, if this was balanced a bit I feel a nerf to rapid lights would not send Caldari back into the stone age’s but would leave them as a competitive race.

Drone’s are currently the number 1 method of effective PvE atm, putting guns and missiles to shame because you can unlease your drones and then AFK, and come back to a completed site, I suggest to counter this:

Drones could be grouped into a single squadron like carriers have, which makes them more susceptible to E-war bringing them a little closer to balance against Missile’s and guns. (I feel it’s better for Drone’s to not be the counter to E-war as this would force more people to fly drone ships rather than missile/guns in small and solo pvp situation’s, its better to rather balance E-war overall rather than say just fly drone ship’s.)

By grouping drone’s they can be made a bit more fun as well so that it doesn’t feel like just a Nerf to drone’s.
More suggestions would be that any remote repair would work on the whole quad at once instead of individual drone’s, this would be a nice Quality of life upgrade for drone user’s. Some future upgrades could include Drone formation’s as well which give different buff’s and to make it more fun they could have different targeting priorities depending on formation. The idea would be that to optimize drone’s during combat one would be constantly switching between formations increasing skill cap for drone user’s and giving masterfull drone users the edge over those who simple release drones and afk.

Some idea’s for formations:
Alpha Formation: Drones focus their fire better in short (Higher damage) bursts to try and break heavy rep tank’s at the expensive of speed. (Prioritizing DPS ship’s)

Beta Formation: Faster Drones with better tracking and Lower dps used for chasing off tackle a second bonus could be Web, tracking disruptor and ECM resistance so that it can handle e-war ships a bit better without having overpowering dps against smaller targets. (Prioritizing E-war ships and tackle)

Delta Formation: Slower Drones that stay within 10km’s and prioritize anything inside scram range of your ship, they would have higher resistance’s and use a turtling strategy in conjunction with your ships remote repair’s maybe some lower tracking to balance it out a bit. (Prioritizing close target’s)

These are just some Idea’s to bring back more options to fly better in Eve with better result’s, If anyone has any better idea’s please share as I feel CCP would benefit greatly from Upping the personal skill Cap (Player skill instead of actual skill point’s) so that there is more strategy in combat and players are rewarded more for strategy.

Thanks for reading this wall of text.


Dev blog: CSM Winter Summit Minutes & changes to election process
(Kannibal Kane) #2

Bring back watchlist, limit wars to 3 a corp 5 for an alliance.

Ping wardecs fixed.

This will bring back smaller focused wardeccing corps. And since you are limited in the amount of wars you want to target those that can return value. This will allow smaller corps to be able to defend themselves better as well since they do not need to worry about facing a 100 man alliance camping trade hubs. And this will also bring back healthy competition between these corps since they will not be afraid to go after each other anymore.

I see many corp that use to fight each other in the past shake hands and join together since CCP removed watchlists.


(Lady Ayeipsia) #3

I strongly disagree with just bringing back the watchlist. It is just plain too powerful. I shouldn’t be able to tell when a titan pilot that I have no affiliation with (good or bad) is online. And yet, this is what happened to the watchlist.

Rather, it should be something limited like a war Dec watchlist. When you declare war or are decced, the war tab should include a sub section. This section should show the members of the corp who are at war and their online/offline status. This way both attackers and defenders get the same Intel and it limits the Intel to only those you are at war with.

As for the war limit, 5 seems small. I’d rather it be a corp skill. Say 3 per skill level, and maybe an advance skill that adds 2 per level or the like.


(Ramona McCandless) #4

Speaking of watchlist, how come some of mine still works? I wasnt present when they borked it. Is that just a side effect of the borkedness?


(Uriel the Flame) #5

If you both have the other as contact and both allow the other to see your online status then you both can see the valid online status, it has to be mutual. Maybe the people you see the valid online status of you have that mutual relationship with? Just a guess.


(Ramona McCandless) #6

Well I guess they would, fair point, even those set to red would like to know when Im about as much as I like knowing when they are.

That solves that groovy mystery.

Thanks


(Avaelica Kuershin) #7

What if the watchlist only gives a definite answer for HS enquiries. Would that work?


(elitatwo) #8

I love to break it to you but rapid launchers do not have any attribute but rate of fire and how many missiles they can carry.

The complaint is the following:
A frigate weapon system is good at shooting things that are frigates and bigger ships.

Back when rapid jeebus launchers were annouced I said they were a terrible idea but it was also the very same time of “can I bring Drake?” -online.

Only 2 people of 400 million have noticed that heavy missiles are useful again but the only “valid” measure of things is dps and nothing else matters, amirite Suitonia?

I only said 700 times in the last 8 years that missiles are no turrets and they shoot a ball of hp damage that is ALWAYS less than the value on your fitting screen says it it or not.

I also proposed a rapid small electron blaster long range gun but that was shot down for reasons™, I still don’t know why exactly.


(Makshima Shogo) #9

They are game dev’s they can add a explosion radius penalty on the launcher itself that effect’s all ammo coming out of it, other option is to add it to each ship but that would be redundant and you cant add it to the ammo type as this would mess up the frigate meta, so the only option left that is logical is on the launchers.

@elitatwo I agree, in general there shouldn’t be 100% counter’s in eve that is just rediculas maybe a slight advantage that is counted as counter and that’s it. Eve is great because its not a rock/paper/scissors lazy ass attempt at game-play which rapid lights are atm.


(The Dunning Kruger) #10

Remove SP trading and the NES along with it.


(Makshima Shogo) #11

SP Trading creates an isk sink to try and help the isk’s run away inflation, also skill trading makes no difference because eve character bazaar always existed before that.


(The Dunning Kruger) #12

Market taxes apply to all items, not just extractors and injectors. The positive effect SP trading has is a drop in the ocean compared to the negative effect of training into the new flavor of the month at a moments’ notice.

That argument has been debunked before and CCPs argument with “the SP was always trained on another character” went out the window the moment they started handing out injectors.
SP trading does way more harm than it does any good and I’m saying that as a person with hundreds of SP farm accounts. I’ve been abusing the living ■■■■ out of SP trading ever since it was introduced and all it did was speed up the demise of EVE, while filling CCPs pockets with money they threw away at other mismanaged projects.


(elitatwo) #13

Revamp the LP stores and create a monster isk sink.


(Makshima Shogo) #14

It’s not tax’s that cause the sink its buying the extractor’s which works out to a crap ton of isk and is now number 1 isk sink in eve, but yea being able to train skills on a whim is a lil op but its fine in my opinion as its impossible for new guys to catch up to guys that have been playing for 15 year’s and this is coming from a guy who started in 2007 :] so yea I’ts not like I have a bias.


(The Dunning Kruger) #15

“Skill” refers to “Skillbooks”. You can’t buy extractors with ISK, only with either PLEX or real money.


(Ramona McCandless) #16

Really?

So the isk is removed from the game? Are you sure?


(Makshima Shogo) #17

Wait you right haha, CCP should just seed extractor’s, but they wont because players buy them with real money :confused:


(Rosov Aulmais) #18

The only thing makes EVE great is positive incentives for people to try things. That’s the reason why FOBs and RWs fail though being creative and innovative content.


(system) #19

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