Why Bump A Freighter Prior To A Gank?

I would trade inability to continuously bump ships (once is enough) for lower EHP. Especially Orca is ridiculous when properly tanked and there is just too many of them mining AFK safely because who has the resources to take it down? And who would bother when those who has the resources can gank freighter instead for profit.

Either way, the reason we have X seconds for gank and ships have X EHP are goons/CODE anyway as if the time to gank was any longer and EHP any lower they could, thanks to their numbers, make the ganking even more profitable than now. Despite their forum crying about how is ganking unprofitable.

First point, they aren’t all alts of 1 actual player.

After grabbing the last 13069 highsec losses of barges, exhumers, freighters, jump freighters and orca (back to 26 December 2017), the activity of the alt fleets is easy to plot.

Here is the Kusion fleet versus the Tax Collector Fleet:

Kusion’s activity matches a US player, while the Tax Collector fleet activity matches an AU timezone player.

Comparing one’s that are similar though, here’s Tax Collector versus Rozei:

The Rozei fleet and Tax Collector fleet could easily be the same person, both fleets having a very similar AU timezone like activity, and the peaks in activity are very close.

Similarly, there is a small fleet of 4 characters (3 with the last name Poddington and 1 with the last name Lawton) that focus on ganking mining ships. That fleet seems to most likely be a US player, but could also be an EU player (though additional discussion below the graph):

While the Lawton-Poddington fleet hits more miners than the Kusion fleet hits freighter size ships, there is a lot of similarity in the times of peaks - peaks at 02:00, between 02:30-03:00, peaks at 06:30, just before DT, between 12:30 - 13:00 on weekends, 16:30-16:00, ~17:00, ~19:30 and again at ~22:30).

These could very easily be the same person.

However, the owner of the Kusion Fleet is not the same person as the owner of the Tax Collector fleet (which I assume is Australian Excellence based on plotting his activity as well).

The owner of the Lawton-Poddington miner ganking fleet isn’t the same as the Rozei fleet owner.

So despite pointing out that the zkillboard data was hard data and not emotions, and that I should look there, it doesn’t support your view that they are all alts of 1 actual player.

They aren’t.

In addition to that, there’s this claim:

Again, nope.

There aren’t 10 active fleets that can be identified as all alts of the same player.

To identify alts of the same player, there are a couple of indicators:

  1. name (this is the easiest):

alt_fleets

  1. character_id (easy to do programmatically).

The easiest to see this is with the Tornado Girl alt fleet. They aren’t very active, but the character ids are all close:

tornadogirl

This holds relatively true across all of the alt fleets (sometimes some alts in a fleet are created at one time and then others later - the Tax Collector fleet is a good example of this). There are always close groupings of character IDs.

So even if the character names aren’t even close, the character_ids help to identify alt fleets.

The zkillboard data you pointed me to, shows 7 gank fleets, not 10.

They don’t operate in parallel and cover primarily US and AU timezone players, but there is also at least 1 EU timezone player.

They don’t operate in parallel all the time.

So I’m currently back to my eariler post that a reason to bump is to hold a target during a period when a gank fleet can’t undock because it’s waiting out a criminal timer.

Average time between ganks will confirm that and I’ll edit with that data when I have it.

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That Tornado Girls are “not very active” is easy to explain because they are relatively new. In your analysis you didn’t check Love, Whyte, Fizzleblade, and the corp WWWMW-whatever. Why?

Yes I did, and it is all consistent with the above - there are not 10 gank fleets running in parallel all the time, owned by one player.

So, I have no clue what analysis you claim to have done, but looking and looking, there isn’t much data that supports your claims no matter which way the data you pointed to, gets analysed.

Your data does not show that. Zkill shows more than 7 alt fleets with Whyte, Fizzleblade, Kusion, Love, Tax Collector, pretty much everyone in that WWWMWWW corp, Rozei, the new groups Tornado Girl, Seyllin and old guys like karma xyx as well as special things like BJBees.

Since you already did the analysis: How about you plot all the groups in one diagram? Not just a small selection but all of them?

Not all of my analysis is presented above. The post is long enough as is.

All of it is consistent though, that there are not 10 alt fleets operating all the time and owned by 1 player.

There are hundreds of BJBee characters. They are not alts. BJBee literally stands for Burn Jita Bee and are created by anyone wanting to be part of burn jita without hitting their main’s security status.

As to the rest, post the data you have “analysed” (according to your claims above), that supports what you are saying.

I’m happy to be proven wrong and change my view, but so far all you’ve done is make claims, with no evidence whatsoever and then when you pointed me to the evidence you claim to have analysed, it didn’t support what you said.

But as for listing BJBee there. That’s just dumb.

What else should I post than the killboard? The killboard shows more alt farms active (as listed above) than you claim there are. You say this is not the case, which means the burden to prove it lays on your side. Not to mention that your data also does not consider the possibilities that the alt farms are being used on purpose during different times of the day.

Admittedly, BJBees are not one alt farm but rather hundreds of alts of different people.

And as second admission: I agree that there may be more than 1 person controlling those alt farms. So we are at 2 or 3 actual people. Great progress, that makes all the difference.

Actual analysis.

That’s still an impressive number of gank fleets…

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Here’s a freighter kill in Uedama that features 26 pilots from 3 different groups (Kusion, Whyte, Rozei) at the same time. There’s no way they are all the same person.

I saw a use of bumping other than ganking today. Mining Ice with some people, one of whom offered boosts to the rest. Part-way through a bumper (who’s profile showed he was a hired thug) arrived, bumping the guy with the boosts . When asked why, he freely admitted he’d been paid to do so by a third party. At the same time a bot farm showed up, with all the signs of being bots (I’ve seen them before, 15 Orca’s moving in perfect harmony…) Presumably this was the ‘third party’, an obvious attempt to monopolise the ice-field for themselves. The guy being bumped had no defence, what would the ‘Eve is a perfect sandbox’ people suggest by way of a response ?

This was in 0.5 hi-sec btw.

Pay the same guy or others, to do the same thing, or gank the entire Orca fleet.

That’s based on the assumption that the Orca fleet are all in NPC Corps. If they are in player owned corps, then declare war and kill them, or pay mercs to.

Individually for the guy, the best overall response would be move from mining in highsec to mining in nullsec where he can mine more. Then not worry anymore.

Sounds to me like this is resource acquisition working as intended. Sure it must stink to not have the isk or resources to turn around and do this to your competition, but this is eve.

It is possible to do so, so it is. I’m glad to see these things happen.

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So, hop in a Mach yourself and bump the Orcas. Not that hard to do…

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Its all one guy I tell ya. I have proofs. No wait its one or two guys and your data should prove it for me. Gah my bad guys it may actually be two or three and to be honest I didn’t do any data analyzing. This is all coming from my extreme and professional use of zkillboard fu’ (think google fu’ but way less rabbit holey). I’m being serious, honest and posting proof because its just my name that’s stoned, not me. Maybe. Probably not. Still i find myself wondering. Why do people bump a freighter… :thinking:

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Then all one has to do too remove the Bump Ship from the equation is to mount a warp scrambler on a rookie ship, scramble the bump using other players every minute or so until the freighter warps out and the gank is stopped.

If another bump ship shows up do the same to it as well.

On face value, I’d agree. That seems quite impressive.

However, when it’s analysed further, perhaps not so much.

For example, the Whyte fleet that Dyver identified earlier, its 5 active characters that don’t gank much on their own, and they aren’t always all used in ganks.

So depending on what definition you want to apply to the concept of a “gank fleet”, it isn’t necessarily an independent fleet at all. It’s just one player with alt characters that takes part in fleets for the most part (and this set of alts, may be one of multiple sets of alts owned by the same AU timezone player, though not necessarily).

The 5 characters are:

Pure Whyte
Another ShadeOf Whyte
Ashley Whyte
Sophie Whyte
Shazna Solta

There are fewer fleets that are truly capable of ganking anything solo.

By comparison, I wouldn’t say for example that 7 is an impressive number of mining fleets. Not that this sort of comparison is important, just that in the overall context of alts in EVE, there are equally impressive examples of alt use.

Won’t do any good. You can’t scram an afterburner, and even with just an afterburner you can still get a Mach over 1km/s. Sure it won’t be as fast as with an MWD, but it will still work nonetheless…

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The scramming rookie ship will be CONCORDED.

So this won’t work at all. You’d need a new rookie ship every 20 seconds or so and web would also be needed and every one of them would need to be within scram and web range immediately.

Not really much use as a tactic.

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And at that point it would be a lot simpler to try to do the web/warp trick on your own freighter.

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