Thatâs already been done. Taxes are still owed on bitcoin and not paying the taxes you owe is criminal tax evasion. And laws are in progress to require registration of bitcoin wallets so they can be traced to an individual person, eliminating the difficulty in collecting the taxes that are owed. But currently refusing to pay taxes because youâre using bitcoin is no different from a server in a restaurant not reporting cash tips to the IRS. You can do it, you probably wonât get caught, but itâs still criminal tax evasion if the IRS ever decides to pursue it.
And TBH it doesnât even matter. Taxation is not a bad thing, currency works just fine when people pay the taxes they owe. Only in libertarian fantasy land is taxation some kind of existential threat and not a basic obligation of living in a functioning society.
Yeah, but that is just as long as the traditional financial system and the traditional bankers are the rich guys with power. That is already shifting. And itâs also a generational thing. And there will be international pressure as to who is at the forefront of this technology will have massive advantages. I donât think the âgovernment will not allow itâ is a valid argument. I donât think they have a choice unless they want to cripple their own financial sector.
Itâs once again similar to pretending the government will not allow the internet because they will lose their power over the communication networks, which where in fact in a lot of countries even state owned until now so long ago. They could have prevented the internet yes? At what cost if other countries participate?
Tax policies will have to be adjusted to reflect the use cases. This will happen automatically over the next couple of years.
Well I bought over the last years when it was under 10k, stopped accumulating in december. Iâm not sure if we are already overvalued, maybe we are. But I expect it to go quite some higher this run still before it crashes to around the levels we have today I would guess. We will see.
Yeah but itâs funny to now constantly hear the question from relatives about if they should buy now. I told them last year and they ignored me.
It ideally will at one point apply to all the people. We will see about that as well. In my opinion (which is based on a lot of observations and thought on the subject) this is simply inevitable.
Thanks guys. It really brightened my morning to see how this topic came back alive. There are some real zingers in here. It is like watching a bunch of boxers have a slap fight.
Congratulations, now youâre right back in the financial system you claim to be independent of
whatâs the issue here? you asked me a big hypothetical and i provided a valid way to work around it. notice i didnât say iâd sell all the bitcoin, only as much as i need to go about my life.
what was the purpose of that hypothetical? feels like itâs just a gotcha without any actual followup. the original point that led to this hypothetical was that iâm in control of my assets - and i still am.
Do those 12 words grant you immigration status and allow you to work in your new destination? Do they make you immune to extradition treaties? Do they do anything that a suitcase of gold bricks wonât already do?
wait is your argument actually âwhat purpose does bitcoin serve if youâre a jew in nazi germany? might as well just roll over and use deutschemark?â how much more ridiculous will you get? my financial assets being in my full control, even under nazi regime, is way better than being reliant on that regime.
Irrelevant nitpicking, the end result is the same
that is just your opinion which entirely depends on your understanding of what âregulating bitcoinâ means.
I do know history, and those currency collapses are not the only scenario where money supply increases. And you can have the opposite problem, where currency increases too much in value and disrupts the economy.
and governments are free to figure out other fiscal levers, they are even free to make their own currencies - iâm not claiming bitcoin is somehow going to replace them. bitcoin is a hedge against incompetent governments.
I care about the practical value of what I can do with my money
i do to. fiat money gives me some practical value. bitcoin gives me some more practical value. i use both.
Bitcoin will not save you. It is a hedge that works like a firewall on computer against someone from government entering your house to kidnap your wife and kids. Governments use force and deceit to make people comply. I dont think anything can save you from that, only emigration, if your government is really bad. Starting life somewhere else. Like the situation in Venezuela. People escaping from country.
sounds like pretty competent government. of course bitcoin wonât save you from the knock on the door, nothing can. i only meant financial and economic incompetency, debasement of currency, hyperinflation, etc. bitcoin is a hedge against that. and even if somebody knocks on your door - you still can claim you donât have any bitcoin and just keep those 12 words to yourself, though of course you better be out of that country before it gets this oppressive.
Especially when they can even confiscate properties like homes or land. There is just no protection against incompetency beside people being more educated and knowing that money doesnt grow on trees, or on computers. Monetary policy is what people should really know about.
The issue is that you claimed to be a bitcoin fanboy because it lets you âcontrol your moneyâ, then promptly conceded that to actually do anything with bitcoin you have to submit to the mainstream financial system where other people control your money. Itâs not a âgotchaâ, itâs you having an argument that doesnât match reality.
wait is your argument actually âwhat purpose does bitcoin serve if youâre a jew in nazi germany? might as well just roll over and use deutschemark?â how much more ridiculous will you get? my financial assets being in my full control, even under nazi regime, is way better than being reliant on that regime.
Except, again, you donât have full control. You have to convert that gold back into normal currency and then spend it just like everyone else. And being able to transport your assets with 12 words doesnât help you when any government that wants to keep you from leaving with your assets can just refuse to let you leave at all.
that is just your opinion which entirely depends on your understanding of what âregulating bitcoinâ means.
I, and every non-fanboy, mean passing laws that regulate the use of bitcoin. I donât care about abstract philosophical questions about whether the law is technically regulating bitcoin itself when the end result is the same.
and governments are free to figure out other fiscal levers
Oh really? So letâs say you have a mortgage on your house in bitcoin: 10 BTC owed to the bank. Bitcoin does what the fanboys hope and keeps increasing in value, meaning the amount you owe to the bank keeps increasing relative to the salary (paid in normal currency) that you earn and you keep falling deeper and deeper into debt. Eventually you declare bankruptcy and lose everything.
This is why governments want stability for their currency, not runaway increases in value. And having the ability to control the money supply in both directions is essential.
conceded that to actually do anything with bitcoin you have to submit to the mainstream financial system
in a hypothetical situation where bitcoin usage is severely restricted by government - yeah, iâll use exchange convert as much as i need to get local currency. how is that not being in control of my bitcoin? youâre not making sense.
Except, again, you donât have full control
right, so your only real argument indeed is that in a hypothetical nazi germany your ability to have control over your finances is very limited. and how exactly is it a problem of bitcoin? again, nonsense.
laws that regulate the use of bitcoin
if thatâs all that you mean by being under jurisdiction then i got no problem with that. when i said bitcoin is not under any jurisdiction i meant no government without significant effort can control bitcoin itself, which is why i like it.
So letâs say you have a mortgage on your house in bitcoin: 10 BTC owed to the bank.
are you under the impression that BTC is going to replace all money? youâre the biggest bitcoin fanboy i met so far!
seriously though there are so many dumb assumptions in your scenario, i donât even want to engage. iâll just say that youâre free to not take loans in BTC and i recommend that you donât.
governments want stability for their currency, not runaway increases in value. And having the ability to control the money supply in both directions is essential
this is why governments make their own currencies and they will continue to do so. what does this have to do with bitcoin?
