What I really wonder is, if EVE isn’t a PvP game, how come almost all of this threads that proclaim this come also with the demand to be left alone or nerfs to aggression? Seems more like a wish than an actual observation of what EVE is.
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Agreed.
Amen.
Really? Aren’t you the guy who thinks CCP should protect his Bowhead?
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thanks, i try
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TIL: economic game doesn’t involve competition between players…
newsflash for you: market play is explicitly pvp… it is even more underhanded than suicide ganking - when ganked you at least can see how and what you lost.
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Disturbing in a great way!
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noice
Luckily EVE can be just as much PvE, PvP, economy and exploration as you want. Well, you’ll always have to do a minimum of economy to get your ships and a minimum of PvP of ‘watching your surroundings to avoid PvP’, but apart from that you’re free to get the mix that works best for you.
Last few days I’ve been at 25% PvE 70% PvP 5% economy and that works for me.
Not sure what you mean with ‘making ship-to-ship combat more interesting/accessible/better rewarded/nuanced consequences’ though. I feel like ship to ship combat is pretty interesting and nuanced already with the amount of fits available to us. Maybe not that accessible, but if you fit a few cheap frigates you can get the basics in PvP combat without much of an investment.
What do you mean with ‘better rewarded’ for ship-to-ship combat? Isn’t it rewarding enough to blow up enemy ships and loot half their stuff? I feel like any extra rewards on top of that would lead to some serious economic trouble as a result of insurance fraud and stuff like that.
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Agreed…
I also noticed how much PVE activity over shadowed every other part of EVE, regarding time spent in game.
Except the vast majority of that is done for ISK to fund direct PvP…
Individual choices don’t change the nature of the game. A player can spend all his time mining, that doesn’t make EVE a mining simulator. The statistics are clear on which activities players choose to do in EVE. PvP is a minor portion of that activity.
If the PvP is a small portion of overall activity in a “game designed for PvP”, I call that poor game design.
For some of the meanings you asked about, here is some clarification:
- Interesting : Eve space combat has the least active combat system of any game I’ve played since the Everquest days. For combat mechanics, it more closely resembles the days when we space-gamed on text based games with limited combat options. Eve combat is primarily “lock, activate scrambler/web, activate weapons, activate reps if needed, wait for target to die.”
Yes, some combat is more active and tricky, particularly duels between ships that aren’t completely imbalanced. I’d guess that makes up less than 20% of combat, which already makes up less than 20% of game activity.
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Accessible : Means that if I want to PvP, and I have an hour or less of play time, I should be able to reliably locate and engage in 1-3 PvP encounters depending how long I have. Faction Wars and Resource Wars and other features could provide this. Except they don’t. Note: this should apply to an average character, not just a character specialized for PvP and left parked in a limited area where PvP is available. If it isn’t widely available, it won’t be widely played.
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Better rewarded : Means there should be something in it for the losers. Imagine where sports, boxing and wrestling would be as industries if it was “winner take all and loser gets the bill”. This can be accomplished in a number of ways: reputation/standing type rewards for engaging foes, insurance coverage that addresses total ‘destroyed value’ and not just a portion of the hull materials, or remove insurance altogether but have factions pay their combatants for engaging foes. Do you stop paying your fighter pilots because they lost a battle? It can also be added to things like Resource Wars where two sides struggle to meet a goal, and the rewards are divided depending on how much of the goal each side achieved.
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Nuanced consequences : For a game that boasts the ‘complexity and depth’ of Eve, the system for dealing with inter-player combat is surprisingly basic. Sector standing which doesn’t matter in 2/3 of the game, bounties which are a joke, Navies which are widely ignored, and Concord which effectively does nothing except either prevent PvP outright or add a factor to the cost calculation of when you’ll ignore Concord.
If one of the design principles of EVE is supposed to be “where your actions have consequences and you have to choose carefully”, then the current system for applying consequences to PvP is mostly pointless. Make standing loss permanent and the only way out of it is more PvP (not PvE tag grinding), make significant game changes based on your history as a pirate/killer/bounty hunter/space police, make Concord less of a factor and navies respond variably based on your threat level. Give scaling rewards for eliminating bigger threats and scaling penalties for shooting down the good guys.
Obviously, the usual crowd will come along and say “I see a flaw in that idea you outlined in 2 sentences, therefore it would be abused and no such changes are possible”. News flash for ya: the game is already full of abused flaws from one end to the other. They’re just mostly boring ones that limit actual gameplay.
You can work around flaws and abused systems, every game does. The point is to make them interesting enough to even want to bother.
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Like everything in EVE, it depends. In this case, it depends on what kind of PvP the game is designed for.
EVE isn’t designed to be a instant-action fast paced PvP game, such as a lot of shooters on the market. Neither is it a strategic lots of clicking PvP game such as some RTS titles, or some MOBAs.
I would even go as far as to say that EVE isn’t a game designed for PvP. PvP is just a big element of EVE gameplay.
That’s why I wouldn’t recommend EVE as a game to someone who’s ‘looking for a fun PvP game’. EVE probably isn’t what they’re looking for, the focus here isn’t on PvP. PvP is just the way of life in EVE.
People expect that a PvP game will put them instantly in fun ‘fair’ fights against others. 1v1 or equal teams. Equal chances for both. EVE isn’t that kind of PvP game.
Ehh… no thanks. When I lose an engagement I do not want a participation award.
Wins and losses feel meaningful, because there is no reward for losing. If you die, you’ve lost your ship. That’s it. If I would get (the value of) my ship back, I could just lose it over and over again and log off because playing would feel pointless.
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EVE does not need arena-style PvP, sorry. PvP is supposed to be the result of conflict between players, you kill someone because you want their stuff or want to drive a rival out of your system or whatever. If you need incentives from NPCs to engage in PvP then you’re playing the wrong game.
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Project Discovery in Jita 4-4 all day long and you never see a shot fired in anger.
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Spamming scam contracts in Jita 4-4 local Should be an Olympic event.
Correct…that has been stated many times in the thread…
You must be out of your mind. Everything youvsaid is wrong it’s amazing. Eve is probably the most PvP game I have ever played.
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travel fit astero.
arena pvp in EVE is great fun, actually, even when you lose - for the simple reason that the way CCP have implemented it means that as hulls go you’re on a level playing field. The rest is down to how you fly, how you fit, and your skillset. Not saying someone perfectly skilled in a ship, weapon, core set will automatically win if he then fits Officer mods all over the place, he could get whelped by a player who just injected his way into an Algos, took it into a 5v5 destroyer arena and cleaned the field using T1 drones while hugging the wall.
Or, to use an example I actually witnessed (and was involved in), taking a freebie ship into a 1v1 knockout cruiser tournament and cleaning up opponents that were fit with MODULES that were each worth more than the entire Gnosis fit. I’m by no means perfectly skilled in anything, but the fact that the Gnosis which I was flying beat EVERYTHING ELSE was as much a shock to me as it was to every other onlooker.
I will clarify, that the players who opted for the Gnosis (I was the only one) were restricted to using only modules that racial T1 cruisers could also use - which meant no command bursts.