Who typically collects the wrecks after a structure fight where the attackers won the armor timer? The short answer is whoever controls the grid. So if the attackers won the timer, the attackers collect the wrecks too right? Well, the thing is, the structure is just place to tether, dock, refit, and shoot guns from. So I can think If anyone just mindlessly shot at the structure and ignored the defender’s logi, the attackers might end up getting wiped out. No one would actually do that though, but I don’t think it’s impossible for the defenders to hold the grid while being unable to prevent the damage cap on the structure being reached. So the answer to who controls the gird would be “it depends.” I’m wondering which outcome is more common.
It depends on the makeup of both fleets. Most structure bashing fleets will have a significant logi complement as stations have alot of neut and significant damage. However, as a defender corp I would plan to make a fleet that is just about equal to the attackers and not even factor in the station. The station is just the cherry on top when defending a station.
This is why HS war pvp can get really interesting as the logistics are super easy as you can go to jita in an alt any time. You can see the enemy fleet and be immune to attack as your tethered so no really big surprises. It is like a chess game on who wants to make the first move. I would always expect third party scavengers who hope to ninja loot wreaks or even cores if the station is on its final timer! It’s really who won the fight and who suffered the most losses that will collect the wreaks and loot. If I had to guess It could be the defenders if they planned everything right.
Man if repping or boosting someone engaged in war was a suspect offense and gave a limited engagment with the guy who shot the guy you’re repping instead of a crimminal offense I bet it would be even more crazy. You’d need a graph of arrows to understand it all. And then there would be a whole new strategy of out of corp logi.
But I’m more talking about low and null sec fights where you don’t get a warning before the shield timer by a war dec, anyone can join in on the fight, and the defenders show up at the armor timer. As you pointed out the defending corp should not rely on the structure to help and probably would only fight if they had comparable numbers and firepower.
When you said you think it’s the defenders who likely pick up the wrecks, do you mean in general or in the specific case I mentioned where the attacks win the armor timer? I know sometimes the attackers are left with grid control, I’ve been in those fights before, and I’ve read about some fights in World War Bee 2 where PAPI took down armor timers and extracted leaving the Imperium with a bunch of wrecks. So obviously even in the subcase where the structure loses the timer, cases where defenders hold the grid and attackers hold the gird both happen, but I was wondering which happen more often. I highly doubt each case happens 50% of the time.
Depending how big the fight is you will always see neutral on grid scooping whatever they can. Highsec has this to if the structure is known or public, even when not, alts of either side will come and scoop.
In the past logi in highsec used to go suspect. But because those that use logi can just bring in more logi friends to go suspect and just keep piling into the chain, it became very one sided. Which is why they changed it, you have to be in the same aliance or corp for logi to work. The suspect one was cancer and I approve of that change. Otherwise I would be suspect baiting mission runners again with no hope in hell for them to ever win.
This might be true, but I suspect in low and null sec either the defender or the attacker controls the grid after the fight. I just wanted to know which was more common.
I suspect you’re confusing two things. I was talking about out of corp logi in a war. You are talking about out of corp logi during a limited engagement. CCP treats them the same, but they don’t have to, one could be criminal and one suspect.
That said I get what you’re saying that this would be ■■■■■■■■ if you could just suspect bait mission runners and then get repped for more than they could ever dish out.
Although to be honest if you suspect bait someone running a level 4 mission, if neither of you have implants you’re almost certain to win even if you honor the one vs one since the mission runner probably has lots of damage enhancing and resistance enhancing modules to deal with the rats but at most one plate or extender to give raw EHP, not to mention he probably has a damage hole.
I am not confusing anything.
It used to be in the past that out of corp logi can rep you even during wars, you would become suspect. Before that nothing happened, you could just rep people before the change to suspect. And now of course you go criminal.
Not sure what implants have to do with it. Killing mission runners where they are in a marauder with me in my Nergal frigate is not an issue. I just said, that if they were to bring it back where logi can rep you as a suspect, I never have to worry about escalations. Which does happen from time to time.
You talk about logi intervening fights as if it was one thing.
But while the game treats intervening in a war the same as intervening in a limited engagement (both being criminal), it doesn’t have to. In my opinion, the dynamics of intervening in a war are different than trying to suspect bait and rely on logi to support.
I only mentioned implants since clean clones means both sides their ships, kind of a “baseline” that makes it easier to evaluate. Even if you baited him and had no logi so you got locked into a one vs one, this is one he probably can’t win.
I will say again that was the case in the past. You could have completely players or alts in NPC corp rep you while fighting a war target. Then they changed it to go suspect and now they go criminal.
The way it is now is good. The out of corp logi and even when they went suspect was widely abused and piled on where there was no hope for the otherside or it became a stalemate where no matter what nobody could break each other since there was just to much logi.
You obviously did not play during those periods. It was terrible, and we used it to the max.