Any theories on why so many people have quit over the last 2 years?

Agreed. Farmers need to be punished, instead of being encouraged. And it is farmers who cry, not those who want challenges. I disagree on the wording of “hooking” people via missions. you can’t hook people with missions, even procedurally generated ones. it’s a dead end, because either they all get beaten easily eventually , or the npc AI learns and continuously wipes them out of space. no matter what, it’s generic MMO content and will not hook, because it’s not the game that hooks them, but the people’s hoarding instincts.

it’s okay to look for short term and medium term customers, but the eternal september phenomenon needs to be taken care of first.

Anyhow: What gets people hooked is adrenaline. adrenaline creates a direct hook to where it comes from, compared to targetting hoarding instincts which don’t care about the source, because that source can be anything that throws things at it. see also: most MMOs who do not deserved to be called *Massive Multiplayer". you’ll have a much harder time finding the adrenaline anywhere outside of EVE, in games that feed the lower instincts.

wanting more players, without care about who or what kind of people, only leads to the situation we have now. nothing you suggested hasn’t been tried already and nothing of that really helped. except for harder missions, which are supposed to come in the highsec expansion.

highsec is a core part of the game. where people start and the game’s culture develops and evolves. it’s not just a noob area, but actually the centerpoint of the game… at least until CCP decided to ruin it. lowsec is lowsec, arguably one of the best places. nullsec is whalesec.

re nullsec i gotta say that anyone who complains about the lack of wars misses the point. the problem isnt the lack of wars, it’s the special snowflakes who can not play the game without someone feeding them content. there’d be aay more wars if nullseccers weren’t mostly a big pile of consumers only logging in for fun.

i need my notebook. i’m on the phone and it shows. i dislike that a lot, but i’m also at work and after a week of barely posting, it’s another week of barely working… lol (not complaining on a high level here :P)

Glad to see we both have our work/EvE balance prioritized :smiley:

I disagree on adrenaline being the only driver, this may be the case for PvP players, but doesn’t necessarily apply to all careers in game. Currently I enjoy the industrial side as time constraints stop me actively flying. I get satisfaction and enjoyment from managing the whole indy side, producing and selling stuff, and generally being useful to my corp. None of this is particularly adrenaline inducing (I go and get punched and kicked at JKD for that), but still provides me with my EvE enjoyment needs.

I would imagine the same applies to Mission runners, incursion runners etc etc. All of these things can be worked out to provide minimal risk of failure, pretty much wiping out the adrenaline side of things. These players are in game for different reasons, and this has always been the case in EvE as far as I can tell.

The game grows when it provides multiple ways to play in the sandbox. Telling everyone they have to build the same sandcastles in the same corner just stagnates the rest of the sandpit. Just as long as everyone is aware that their sandcastle can be squished at any point there shouldn’t be an issue with this (IMO of course)

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And many don’t and just take the easiest way out. My point: I’m not sure you can draw any conclusions from that question in that place. I’m not even sure you could draw the right conclusions when you ask your active playerbase about the health of the game and needed changes. Simply because the answers will most likely be in the mindset of:

Again, I agree. When looking at player retention or improvements of Eve (in general), that is the level you should start.
When you look at reasons why people leave (or don’t start with the game in the first place), it comes eventually down to all those things we are reading here: individual viewpoints and foremost feelings.
Right now, people everwhere feel unprivileged (when it comes to CCP caring about “their” playstyle or space), many feel disappointed (when the game or CCP doesn’t match their expectations), some feel alienated (when seeing CCP catering for the instant gratification crowd), some feel that development has stagnated and the game got boring and so on…
And while all these examples have reasons that lie somewhere in the ‘big picture’ (they even have a common aspect: lacking communication between CCP and players), people may feel very differently about those.

This leads to:

Which most likely means that they will also leave out of different reasons, when they don’t feel like getting what they are here for anymore.

I don’t see that push to Null and I also don’t see a lack (or more importantly a significant reduction) of play styles.
Some might say, that the current SOV system is even pushing players out of Null, the recent WH-space changes pushing players out of that space and the lack of changes in Low-Sec driving players out there, too.

Feel free to not use the forum at all if you have a problem with people addressing the content of your comments and trying to participate in a conversation.

What you wrote was utter nonsense and showed a complete misunderstanding of the presented study. I just pointed this out to you and explained at length why. Feel free to actually address my points, if not I will assume I made my point and you are still digesting it and the deflective reply is just part of the usual denial process.

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:roll_eyes:

I’m quite happy talking to everyone else, it’s just you :smirk: o7

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Mate, i suggest you read this one:

And even more on topic, this one:

That’ll help skipping a few posts.

We werent talking about a driver, but about a hook. The driving element, which makes people repeatedly seek a drug, is the desire to regain the feelings the drug provides.

You look for satisfaction (see second link), which is great! Long term, bam, a good customer. The rest of your post is addressed in the latter link, the former one helps understanding a few things about the game on a more fundamentally level. Both belong together, but things are missing.

If i ever write a proper paper about EVE ONLINE, these two posts’ contents would definitely be in it. :slight_smile:

No. Again, you talk about the individual level. It already provides multiple ways of playing and it doesn’t grow anymore. PvE/PvP are not playstyles and only pure PvE players create this seperation. PvP players do other things than shooting as well. Tons of them would be mining, if it was worth the time. And they’d be a hell of a lot better miners than those we have now, because attacking them will actually lead to a reaction in-game, not on the forums.

I’ve quadruppleboxxed a mining fleet, btw, and I’m what you’d call a PvPer. I also ran missions, traded, did industry, social engineering, politics, wardeccing. You name it and i probably did it… except afk cloaking. I don’t waste power like that.

You won’t see PvErs, who create this artificial seperation, doing PvP. Get the distinction out of your thinking process.

Everyone is building his own sandcastle, growing the global sandcastle, which is a jungle. The Game. As long as you don’t understand that the game (you lost :grin:) is a jungle and that being able to defend yourself isn’t PvP “gameplay” (and thus not some playstyle forced on others), but is a requirement for playing without being unhappy, then you will just continuously post things i will grow tired of correcting. :slight_smile:

It’s not PvPers forcing some playstyle onto PvErs. It’s PvErs forcing their selfish, lower instinct driven desires onto the game itself.

If me and a carebear got dropped into a real jungle, only with a machete for each of us, then the carebear dies. He will not be willing to defend himself. Instead he will complain about how he is not supposed to do it himself and instead demands that i protect him and that the jungle leaves him alone.

So i cut his head off, because he’s food i need to protect myself and stay alive. :slight_smile: That’s EVE ONLINE, ignoring how CCP tries to wreck it into something else that’s not working.

I accept your surrender.

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i’m really happy about the way you write your posts now, :slight_smile: , and as a friendly reminder I must ask you to watch out for his ego baiting you into back-and-forth posting. He wants that.

Anyhow, awesome posts, thank you!

you don’t need to play PvP to enjoy game and be part big events in New Eden.

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Everything you do is ultimately PvP (Yellow seems to interpret my view and activities in game incorrectly here), the activity may be PvE but it affects everyone else in game to a greater or lesser degree.

My view is that CCP should seek to maximize player numbers in all areas in all activities, whilst encouraging them to take more risks. It also needs to be made absolutely clear from the outset that you are a target for everyone in game at all times.

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But it can reasonably be argued it’s all PvP as everything you do impacts others, at the very least through available resources, just how much PvP any given activity is is simply a matter of degree.

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This is what I wanted to say. Yellow Parasol seams to always (every time I see his posts) try force us to statement that only PvP fights create content in game and affect events in EVE world. For me this is 100% wrong.

@Markus_Jameson ^

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He is correct that it’s a major part of the game as currently combat PvP accounts for all of the destruction in game and drives production.

The PvE activities need to become more risky to also drive destruction to a degree. It’s losses that make the market turn, not resource gathering.

There also needs to be an improvement in how newer players are enticed into higher risk areas.

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Yep, make people who won’t all day long avoid stupid gankers, just enjoy game with friends unable to play.

Yes, this will put more demand on market but also make players who don’t want to be part of main PvP stop playing.

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Great post! So fluid! :smiley:

The study itself is being backed up by history. Shooting by recruiting works, injecting adrenaline works. EVE grew through player2player interaction, increasing retention. Retention was a player thing, not a CCP thing.

I don’t see your point. All these individual points can be condensed into a few (because of sameness), which then further can be boiled down to the essentials (motivations).

If CCP properly communicated, they’d lose out on short-term customers.

We are at a situation where CCP made those who happily created content left the game. CCP took the potential of BRAVE and KarmaFleet onto the next level and targetted the nullbear (the masses), causing a significant increase of consumers. Evidenced: many don’t play unless there’s a big-fleet-ping, many mostly care about farming and many only ever undock when there’s an FC around for smaller fleets. RvB has lots of these as well. They (wrongly) call FCs “content creators”, which i’d call abuse of the term.

These are a gigantic amount of individuals who all share a need for content. No point in addressing the individual level, when the problem is cultural. No point in addressing the individual, when the individual isn’t aware of the reason of his complaint.

Example: if people want more wars to happen, they should start igniting them. The amount of complaining people is big enough for it’s own alliance. (Now we see war happening, but this will end again eventually and then people will go offline again, or go back farming.)

The jungle needs to attract creators again, because the consumers aren’t reliable long time customers and they die way too fast. The individual level doesn’t matter as much as most individuals would like to believe.

If it does, i’d like to know how, so i can address the points. “Not playing for survival”, btw, isn’t available as option. It’s a fundamental part of the experience.

I’m on my tablet. Beats the phone, still bad compared to a keyboard and proper monitor.

I strongly suggest not using terms which will cause confusion, then, especially for those who don’t know better. That’s why I picked the jungle analogy.

PvP is a trigger word. Getting rid of the seperation of PvP and PvE would be helpful, especially for those who can not see beyond.

Easy. Let players do it. Incentives are for consumers. Bait for the baitable. Therefore they’re not a good approach towards fixing the problem. :slight_smile:

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Again you miss the point.

1% of 80,000 is 800…which means that less than 800 are retained after getting killed “illegally”.
If they retain even 20% of those it would mean 160 players keep playing.

How many of the remaining 79,200 were retained? I’ll bet it was more than 800…but.
To have a 20% retention rate in this group would mean 15,840 keep playing, and as we all know, that isn’t happening and why quoting %'s always favours the smaller group.

So, to my question…if less than 1% quote ganking or ship loss as a reason for quitting, what exactly are the remaining 99% quoting as a reason for quitting?

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Passive aggressive.

Well then they stop playing. Good. Quality > Quantity. They’re not entitled to their safe space, for that they can play X. EVE is a jungle. If you don’t want to survive, then you die.

Deal with it? vOv

Can you just simple ignore my posts and don’t starts conversations with me? I already said that your view of how people need to pay EVE is wrong to me. And I don’t want to start argue with you about why you force people trying to play sandbox game to play it way you want.

If you don’t like miners, traders etc. who don’t take part in main PvP quit EVE. Because no one will change whole game just to make more practice targets for you.

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Good, because we’re not engaging in discussions or arguments, especially because you don’t actually have any. No. I’m simply pointing out mistakes you make and how your individualistic viewpoint is flawed. You make the mistake to believe that everything is just opinion and viewpoint, ignoring that when facts, and logic based on these facts are being added into it, then that’s not even remotely comparable to your individualistic, angry drivel.

TL;DR, because you need it:
EVE is jungle. You die. Your selfish viewpoint of the game doesn’t matter for the big picture.

PS: You reading things into my posts (not liking miners etc.), just shows how the conversations here are apparently too challenging for you to take part in, because i never wrote or implied anything about them. That’s just your selfish bias reading things into my posts.

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