0.0 anomalies and VNI. Why ain't nerfed?

(DraconisAlpha) #1

Hi all. I just came back to EVE after a 4 years stop. Joined an 0.0 alliance to have some fun (and found) and playing out with my trader alt quite well.
Yet, I see loads of complaints all over about messed up PI, low sec, industry… . Market is in the hands of macro players, mining is 99% AFK, (same as before) and…seems where I live most of income comes to people from AFK VNI ratting in anomalies.
As crazy as it sounds to me, there are systems with 30+ anomalies, where people live an AFK life and just farm rats.
Why devs never thought about limiting anomalies number per sys and forcing people to move around avoiding this AFK behavior? When I was playing there were some better mechanics in play: asteroids rats were more of the way, one person per system meant not much space for gangs of ratters, less people per system meant more spread life and easier ganks.
Let me have your thoughts. I’m not sure what I’m missing here.

1 Like
(Scoots Choco) #2

[puts on tinfoil hat]

CCP has realized that most of the repeat customers come from people who subscribe to the game not to engage in conflict, but to engage in various krabbing activities. The ones who log in day in and day out in order to do nothing but mine or VNI rat in anomalies and just grow their wealth or assets.

These types of playstyles are also a lot easier to translate into alts. While most people may have difficulty multiboxing 3 combat characters, your most casual player can easily run 3-4 VNI alts with almost zero effort. Whereas a solo player might really only need to PLEX a single high SP account that’s very active and attention focused, a multiboxing ratter may easily run multiple alt accounts. Every account that’s run as Omega (not counting people who skirt the rules and multibox Alphas) are additional accounts that pay money to CCP.

On top of this, ISK is really the lifeblood of EVE Online. And there’s really no other good way to make ISK in the game beyond killing NPC rats in anomalies. Sure, there are incursions, Level 4 missions, wormholes where with proper set up, you can make billions, and many more. But the Monthly Economic Reports always show the same thing month after month. Nullsec NPC bounties (primarily from anomalies) account for the overwhelming majority of the ISK.

So now you have a system where people NEED to make ISK, and an environment that allows people to do so with very little effort, assets committed to the field, and with almost no SP spent. I’ve heard it was possible to start an Alpha character in a VNI as soon as they start using the 750,000 SP bonus you get from buddy accounts.

Therefore, it’s in CCP’s best interest not to touch these. The more people they’ve got ratting in space with so little effort and investment, the more people will be likely to multibox, and pay money to CCP. Because even if you PLEX accounts with PLEX purchased off the market, someone had to pay CCP money for that item to be created in-game.

[Tinfoil hat off]

I reckon the reason that CCP hasn’t really touch it, outside of the recent respawn time nerfs (which really only impacted those who were most offending), is that they just don’t know how. There’s no real good alternative. How do you change an activity that is so ubiquitous, so relied upon by thousands of players (and alts) without causing a huge uproar from the paying player base (keeping in mind that it’s very easy for individual players to operate multiple accounts).

There’s just no real good solution that will address such a huge daily activity that’s performed by thousands of people. The Abyssal sites were an interesting change, but even now, it’s not being run that frequently outside of some of the more adventurous. And even of those, not everyone is willing to drop 8b on a Gila or 6b on a Sacrilege fit to run T5 Abyssal sites.

CCP’s probably stuck in a weird place, where they know the current system isn’t optimal, but there’s no real good way to move away from it without causing a huge blacklash from players. vOv

TL:DR; it’s complicated, and money (maybe).

11 Likes
(DraconisAlpha) #3

O7 Scoots. Thanks for your answer. Pretty interesting and explanatory.

I think alt accounts is what keeps new players out of getting in, and eventually what keeps inflaction high (they create ISK) yet also plex price high. Looking at it this way, if I was CCP I’d be way careful touching these mechanics indeed.
I just wish for a gradual nerf.

1 Like
(Elena Laskova) #4

Scoots

How many of these people are actually paying customers?

PLEXers aren’t paying customers. They actually harm other players (those who don’t have access to the most efficient income sources) by driving down the relative value of every other kind of resource grinding (through ISK inflation and lower “commodity” prices).

It does seem likely that CCP don’t know what to do (or don’t care enough to figure it out. But I think part of their problem is a shared delusion with players: that the freeloaders are necessary for EVE.

Or there’s a tinfoil hat explanation: CCP don’t care about anything but player numbers, and instead apply “bird in the hand” logic, and value botters over new players.

(Ms Steak) #5

As long as the only source of Plex is $ - plexing players are as important as paying customers because they create demand for the plex for paying customers to get some krabbed ISK and save time.

4 Likes
(Elena Laskova) #6

Ms Steak

PLEXers do not pay money to CCP, so they are not paying customers. Nor do they drive the demand for PLEX to be purchased from CCP.

CCP gets their money from the PLEX4cash buyers. The demand from PLEX4cash buyers (to spend money with CCP) is driven by their wish to obtain and spend ISK.

It’s two distinct markets with one product in common (PLEX).

1 Like
(Natocha Daisy) #7

This is a weird post to make after coming back after 4 years.

Are you a dev?

Why are you complaining about players taking advantage of the game?

That’s what the games for.

Sheesh some people are never happy.

U find one exploit and they moan and complain and report it to the world so the game gets even tighter and less fun.

(Natocha Daisy) #8

Excellent post Scoots.

Btw where do I find the monthly economic report?

Thanks.

(Ms Steak) #9

Not sure if you are serious or just trolling.

3 Likes
(Ms Steak) #10

VNIs just got a nerf - +10 sig radius (makes them tank way less in 100mn ab fits) and it lost its drone speed bonus which makes them even harder to AFK.

Instead of reducing number of anomalies CCP should, imo, increase number of tackling and webbing rats in all anomaly types.

4 Likes
(Natocha Daisy) #11

This is not correct.

PLEX is a scam by CCP incorporated to draw people into the pay-to-win method, which actually doesn’t work in Eve because everything is balanced at each skill level. So purchasing Plex with real money and then selling it for isk to buy skill injectors drives ccp’s income in my opinion.

Scam alert.

I’m also guilty of falling into that trap.

(Natocha Daisy) #12

Are you serious?

So the only way to reasonably make tiny amounts of isk by repetitive strain injury null ratting just got a nerf?

I did vni ratting for a month when I was new and it made me quit Eve for two months.

Right now there is no other way of ratting in Nullsec that isn’t horrible short of undocking your capital ships - and these are scams also because they cost billions and yet you are killing the same 1 mil bounties as the vni. The speed increase doesn’t matter because you’ll suffer from the same repetitive point and click strain injury.

#whyidontplayinnullsec
#improvethegame

(Elena Laskova) #13

It’s an interesting part of the collective beliefs of EVE players in general that some non-paying player (PLEX4ISK sellers) aren’t freeloaders.

Obviously they do not drive the PLEX4cash market.

It’s fair to say PLEX4ISK sellers are needed to balance the PLEX4cash purchases, but that’s just a discussion about price, not CCP income.

My theory is that EVE players (like most PvE players), believe that certain kinds of play and in-game achievements deserve to be rewarded. But it’s just part of the shared illusion: CCP should want actual money, so they should see each subscriber as equal, and subscribing PLEX4cash buyers as extra-good customers.

Gamers who specialize in PvP combat see things differently.

Winning the game isn’t being the richest for them: it’s combat capability, combat skill (where killing hordes of weaker players doesn’t count), being “the last man standing” if that kind of combat is available, etc.

(Daichi Yamato) #14

They do.

Their inclination to buy isk rather than grind for it is based on how high plex prices are.

It gets to a point where working for a couple hours to buy isk becomes faster than grinding for the isk in game.

(Elena Laskova) #15

How?

Demand is because there are players with cash who want ISK.
Supply is infinite, and price is set my CCP.

There’s an obvious feedback effect effect (from the in-game purchasing power of a PLEX), but that will balance around the cost of subscriptions, not the availability of PLEX4ISK sellers.

The “vet narrative” that wants to make “EVE aristocracy” out of some freeloaders is just part of the delusion. Though CCP plays along, so in this particular area it’s easy to get lost in the fog.

(Daichi Yamato) #16

And the amount of players wanting to exchange cash for isk goes up with the higher plex prices. (because why grind for 10hours when you can work for one and get just as much isk leaving the other 9hours for having fun).

And the plex price increases with more plexing accounts.

You’re calling it this because you don’t yet understand the economics and opportunity cost.

1 Like
(Natocha Daisy) #17

Now you’re exaggerating…

(Daichi Yamato) #18

Why?

500plex costs 2bil now.

Thats 10hours of very decent isk making. Or 30-50hours of grinding level 4’s in highsec.

Or, work an extra 2hours (@minimum wage in the UK) and get 2bil isk with change.

(Natocha Daisy) #19

:joy:

(Elena Laskova) #20

The first part of your post restates mine, but introduces at least one probable error.

The second appears to be foolish. If you’re trying to make the point that PLEX4cash buyers are saving in-game time by spending cash, it’s obvious, and providing a name won’t improve anyone’s understanding.

I have a challenge for you (on which you will be graded, so at least read wikipedia): what is the nature of the opportunity cost in that case?