1 isk = $1'000'000

In the past, I have argued for a rough approximation, such that 1 ISK might correspond to something like $1’000 in modern Earth terms. Upon further reflection, I appear to have understated what an ISK actually represents.

I failed to recognize that warp travel and capsuleer activity are not representative of ordinary life. They are visible to the player because the player occupies an exceptionally rare position in the setting. When the wider population is taken into account, the economic meaning of ISK changes radically.


Warp Travel Is Not Normal

Warp-capable travel appears common only because we observe New Eden through capsuleers. In reality, a solar system may contain billions of people and zero capsuleers. For ordinary civilians, interstellar travel is not a realistic aspiration. It is something done by states, megacorporations, militaries, and a tiny apex class.

A warp-capable shuttle is therefore not analogous to a car or an airplane (my original assumption). It is closer to a strategic military asset. The fact that capsuleers treat shuttles as disposable says more about capsuleer wealth and institutional privilege than about the underlying value of the technology.


Time Dilation and Economic Weight

To make sense of scale, I also rely on a necessary assumption: time dilation. Under this interpretation, one real-world day corresponds to one in-world year. Within this framing, an ‘interstellar year’ using the YC calendar is equivalent to several hundred Earth years. This shift does not eliminate faster-than-light travel, but it reduces how extreme it is. Interstellar journeys take weeks or months of in-game time. Capsuleers do not experience this time directly, as they pilot ships within what we might call a ‘dream’ state. Meanwhile, repairs take meaningful effort. Campaigns last years and wars take place over decades. In other words, much like modern spacecraft, every hull is the culmination of extensive industrial effort.


ISK as a Civilization-Scale Unit

Once these points are accepted — warp rarity and time dilation — ISK can no longer be treated as a trivial currency. It becomes a macro-economic unit, representing claims on a civilization-scale economy spanning thousands of solar systems.

In that context, it is reasonable to say that an average person may never meaningfully earn ISK at all. If they are exceptionally fortunate, they might accumulate a few ISK across an entire lifetime. For most people, ISK is something they only understand indirectly, the way medieval peasants saw gold bullion or modern citizens see GDP and national debt.

For an average person, 1 ISK corresponds to 1,000,000 planetary dollars.


Earth as a Poor Peripheral Planet

If Earth were placed inside the New Eden economy, it would not be a powerful planet. It would be a poor backward economy competing against multi-system industrial states under total war conditions and extreme wealth concentration.

In such a setting:

  • Earth’s currency would exchange very poorly against ISK.
  • Strategic assets would price far beyond Earth’s GDP.
  • Interstellar capability would be almost unattainable.

A shuttle costing $10 billion (10’000 isk) is not absurd in this frame. It implies Earth might afford only a handful of craft, at great expense, making interstellar travel unimaginably rare for ordinary people. Under my previous assumption, someone like Elon Musk might be able to afford an exhumer, worth $300 billion. However, under my new assumption, such a powerful industrial tool would be well beyond Earth’s purchasing capacity, with a mindboggling price of $300 trillion.



When warp travel is understood as rare, time-intensive, and restricted to an apex class, ISK becomes correspondingly more valuable. It functions as a civilization-scale unit representing access to interstellar power. Viewed from that perspective, a conversion on the order of 1 ISK ≈ $1’000’000 is not extravagant. What appears excessive in Earth dollars simply reveals how small a single-planet economy would be within a vast interstellar economy.

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This is not actually the case. A YC year is a real world year. The YC calendar is Earth’s Gregorian calendar, as reconstructed from ancient Amarrian records, with year 0 set at the time of the Yoiul Conference (“YC”), our year 23236.

Travel genuinely is quicker for capsuleers than for baseliners, but this is because baseliners get sick from warp travel and stargate jumps. Thus they travel at a more leisurely pace, and can take several days to make journeys just a few jumps long. How capsuleer crews are unaffected is never explained.

We have examples of what happens when primitive societies (like current day Earth would be) encounter the factions of EVE Online. No, not the Minmatar, they already occupied multiple solar systems by the time the Amarrians found them. I’m talking about Feythabolis. They were just beginning to set up colonies on the neighbouring planets of their home system when the Angel Cartel ran into them. Today they exist as the name of a region, and their entire lore is summed up in that region’s description:

The human diaspora throughout the systems of New Eden was quite widespread prior to the collapse of the EVE Gate. In many areas, cultures cut off from other civilizations thrived in isolation. One of these regions was Feythabolis, a relatively small empire of progressive thinkers and egalitarian political philosophers. Unfortunately, this state lagged behind other empires significantly in technological advancement, having only recently started to colonize the local space just as the ruthless Angel Cartel was moving in to establish their control. Completely outclassed by the military forces of the Cartel, the fledgling empire was defeated with ease and its entire population bent to the will of the Angels.

If Earth was discovered by the Gallente we’d likely be subsumed into the federation as one of countless unnamed temperate planets. If we were discovered by the Caldari one of the megacorps would take over, but if the achura are an accurate representation of what happens to primitives who encounter the State, we’d probably be treated decently as long as we get with the program. I’ve no idea what the Minmatar would do (outright slavery seems unlikely, but just as unlikely is equal status as a new “tribe”), but I do have a good idea what the Amarrians and the pirate factions would do.

In either case, the question of whether we could afford to buy a shuttle if we pooled our resources is moot, our resources would belong to the discovering faction and not be ours to barter away to begin with. If we’re lucky we’ll be uplifted by one of the “nice guys” and maybe some of our grandchildren will qualify as capsuleers.

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Now I have a solid line of reasoning for why my 1 million $ loan request from the bank isn’t a big deal. Thank you for your insightful post!

With informed regards
-James Fuchs

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I just said it’s not. One YC is a third of a millennia.

:woman_teacher:t2:

Don’t believe Gallente lies!

More technically, the YC to modern date conversion is just a brainless 1:1 mapping which CCP has introduced so they can say “in YC128” instead of “in 2026”. It’s not creative, and it’s not science-fiction. It’s just what happens when a corporation pretends to roleplay. When you actually play the game, which nobody at CCP does, you realize that the 1:1 time mapping can’t possibly make sense. Capsuleers often undergo intensive training, only to retire a day or two later? They undock and lose their ship ten times a day? Ships repair from major damage in seconds, and warp around at thousands of times the speed of light? Entirely new ship designs are invented every year, jumping straight into mass production? The YC date is effectively meaningless, but if you want to use it, then it should be used in the context of centuries.

In any game, the real art is the ability to understand and recognize abstractions, and acknowledge where the implementation of the game does not match internal logic. Chronology is a key issue, as people in real-life do not have time to simulate another reality at a 1:1 time scale. It doesn’t actually matter what CCP says, the facts are quite evident. EvE Online takes place at a much faster rate.

At a 1:365 timescale, ships do not undock in a few seconds. Instead, that process takes closer to 15 minutes. If you stay docked for a few minutes, repairing your ship, sorting your ammo and cargo, and deciding what to do when you undock… your capsuleer was aboard that station for a couple days. That PvE mission that lasted an hour, was actually a 2 week campaign. Capsuleers do not experience this time directly, because they live in a dream state. This extended timescale explains why they sleep for long periods of time, letting their ship and crew die. Capsuleer sickness is particularly common amongst the mining caste, marked by drowsiness and disorientation.

In every sci-fi universe owned by a corporation (whether it’s EvE or Star Trek or Battletech or Aliens), there will be a fundamental disconnect between the internal lore and what the corporation has said is official ‘canon’. We must reject the corporate narrative, as nameless bureaucrats do not understand the lore.

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What is this relateable post from princess Aiko? is the world healing?

I think the GDP of a planet is enough to fund quite a few battleships per month. Even single capsuleer PI-factories can extract a couple hundred million per month. This means the whole planets output will be much higher.
our (Terran) GDP is like 100 Trillion $ which means if we could figure out how many crate of Robotics, water, or whatever we could produce on this temperate planet we could figure out how many battleships we could afford.

ISK is completely flawed btw, the SCC only accepts taxes in ISK payment. And if you don’t pay they “take everything” even entire star systems. I’d happily rely on the smaller local planetary or system wide currencies that exist. even carbon would be a better currency than ISK.
CONCORD is better at ruthless capitalism than Caldari, change my mind.

The time scaling makes not a lot of sense. If a ship decides to undock for example, what about the crewmember who just visited the station and is sitting on the toilet watching holos?
they cannot possibly sprint to the ship in 4 seconds.
Then the logistics of stations make no sense and if you can warp drive around you don’t really have relativistic effects like you arrive at your destination after jumping 500AU and the battle is allready over.

It’s almost like eve actively doesn’t try to portray a realistic universe, probably because eve never had a grand vision in the first place and was just a sheme to make Hilmar rich and write his satanic bible with players blood :kangaroo:

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Some time ago I proposed a rough conversion suggesting that 1 ISK corresponds to roughly one million modern Earth dollars. At times this feels excessive, but after revisiting the numbers I find myself arriving at essentially the same conclusion by a different route.

:woman_teacher:t2:

The starting point here is to consider wealth on Earth. Estimates of global networth are commonly placed around $500 trillion. If we divide that by Earth’s population of roughly 8.3 billion, we obtain a global average of about $60,000 per person. This number does not represent income or productivity, but rather a rough share of the planet’s accumulated assets.

Now consider New Eden. If we assume a civilization-scale population of roughly 150 trillion people, then maintaining the same per-capita wealth would imply a total civilizational wealth on the order of $9 quintillion. This figure should not be interpreted as annual economic output. Rather, it is an abstract estimate of galactic liquidity. We also know the in-game money supply is on the order of 3 quintillion ISK. If we divide the estimated galactic wealth by this monetary base, the result is a rough conversion rate of approximately 3 planetary dollars per ISK.

At first glance this might seem like our final answer. However, New Eden is not simply a larger version of Earth’s economy. Wealth is more concentrated. Interstellar infrastructure, megacorporate power, and capsuleer warfare mean that enormous capital assets are controlled by relatively few actors, while ordinary planetary populations live in relative poverty. The effect of this is amplified by advanced technology, concentrating wealth and power. Our answer is ultimately dependent upon how we evaluate these factors.

If wealth concentration is significantly higher than on Earth, the average planetary worker commands far less economic power relative to the civilization-wide total. A trained engineer who might earn $100,000 annually on Earth might earn less than $20,000 in a crowded planetary economy—living modestly in dense housing, with limited access to capital or property. A planetary ‘billionaire’ would likely have less than 1000 ISK, enough to perhaps buy a cheap corvette.

This compression of ordinary incomes effectively increases the relative value of interstellar currency. Adjusting the earlier estimate to reflect greater wealth concentration brings us back to a familiar result:

1 ISK ≈ 1,000,000 planetary dollars

For your convenience, here is a list of common jobs, and the amount of isk each worker earns over the course of a year. Do note (as discussed above) that one year in EvE Online corresponds to one day in ‘real-life’, as the Yulai Convention established that the calendar galactic year YC = 365.25 solar years.

Fast food worker 0.009 ISK
Retail worker 0.011 ISK
Skilled labor 0.016 ISK
Truck driver 0.017 ISK
School teacher 0.020 ISK
Police officer 0.022 ISK
Nurse 0.026 ISK
Military officer 0.030 ISK
Mechanical engineer 0.032 ISK
Software engineer 0.040 ISK
Medical doctor 0.073 ISK
Corporate tycoon 1-5 ISK
Celebrity superstar 100+ ISK

image

:princess:t2:

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I don’t agree with most of your arguments and methods.
I have taken the prices/kg of real world products that are being traded in game and roughly compared them to the ISK prices/kg:

Even at the high end it does not go above 6000 dollar per ISK, so I’m gonna have to disagree with you.

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This is what I originally tried to do, but the flaw in your reasoning is you know nothing about either the quality or amount of an ingame item. Nor do you know the scarcity of wheat, cattle, or wine. You slip into irrationality when you say the Pax Amarria is worth $80. This distorts your estimate, causing you to believe than an isk is worth 20 cents. Why do you think Quafe is worth $500 - what is Quafe??? A direct item for item comparison is meaningless. For example, certain metals are valuable on Earth because they are relatively rare, but across tens of thousands of star systems that scarcity may no longer hold true - likewise, demand may be very different. Consequently, in New Eden, fresh water might be worth more than gold. Bread might be a luxury item. This is why I took a macroeconomic approach.

To clarify, the Pax Amarria is not worth 20 cents. It is in fact a rare historical work, with mint condition original copies selling for billions of planetary dollars. It is comparable to an early Bible, but unlike the Bible it was mass produced in great quantities and distributed across the galaxy. Early editions remain exceedingly popular, as they often contain original art and they are typically encrusted with rare metals and minerals - even low quality copies are worth millions of dollars. This is only one interpretation, and I’m not sure which I prefer. The other is that the real value in such items comes from ownership of stock. You aren’t just hauling tobacco or shoes, but you are hauling the actual corporate stocks. In this scenario, traders in Jita are trading interest in various megacorporations. Indeed, the Pax Amarria is the most popular book in the galaxy, and there is likely a large industry producing them. The most likely abstraction is that these items represent some combination of both.

That varies from item to item.

I guess I will just disagree.

Quafe is the name of the most popular soft drink in the universe - Quafe is one of the best recognized brands in the whole EVE universe and can be found in every corner of it.

So I compared it to Coca Cola.

What is your source?

You write your interpretation as a fact, with contradicting parts: “a rare historical work” “unlike the bible it was mass produced in great quantities.

So you don’t know what Quafe is?

Exactly. I am providing you with facts.

I know what the ingame description of Quafe is.

What is your source for this fact?

Well, for starters, Quafe is produced using the human adrenal gland, from which excretions are extracted and blended with a sugary carbonation. This has two consequences. First, the drink is grossly expensive (pun intended) because human remains must be procured and synthesized in the lab (this is in itself quite complicated and expensive). There are several other exotic ingredients which I am not at liberty to disclose. Furthermore, since it is widely illegal to manufacture and distribute, black market costs increase the price even further. Currently, a crate of Quafe will cost you around 350 million planetary dollars. However, if you want the good stuff, and I recommend this, then make sure to try Quafe Hyper. Starting at just 150 billion dollars per can, Quafe Hyper is produced using only the finest human specimens. It’s one thing to drink the mind of some homeless vagrant from Dodixie, but those with a more discerning palette will prefer the subcranial nanocontroller enhancements which are found only in Quafe Hyper!

Quafe is not recommended for non-augmented children under 3, people with high blood pressure lacking nano-monitors, diabetics without neo-insulin implants, or epileptics sensitive to psychoactive nanoparticles. Quafe accepts no responsibility for injuries inflicted on the self, third-parties or property under the influence of Quafe Hyper.

im assuming you never heard of the MER (Monthly Economic Report)

He thinks Quafe is like Coca-Cola!

:rofl:

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you forgot to employ the fuel costs of launching stuff into orbit…teh material and tech costs of the vehicle used to launch into orbit…the costs of safely grounding the wares…

and do not forget starships have fusion plants on board…so at the very least deuterium is needed as fuel… the costs of the special thick abaltive paints on anything made of tritanium that has to be reapplied every few trips… Tritanium ignites in oxygen atmosperes…

so want to re-calculate those prices???

image
image

You can’t grow wheat on an asteroid!

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When I originally calculated this, I used Che’s approach, estimating $1000 per isk. However, this felt too low, when I moved from items to spaceships.

As noted, the quality of items is undefined. Is Vintage Wine comparable to a modern luxury wine, perhaps a few thousand dollars at most, or is it something more exquisite? I believe it’s the latter, because we are talking about a galactic economy - vintage wine is not something people get at their local Italian restaurant. It’s the sort of thing that you can’t even find on most planets. We could imagine, as Che does, that the Pax Amarria is a cheap mass-produced Bible - but is it? I suspect every item in Jita is insanely expensive - the sort of stuff planetdwellers never encounter.

Right now, in Jita, you can get a fully fitted Corvette for under 3400 isk. Under Che’s system, just 3.4 million dollars. This is roughly the price of a small jet, and it would be widely available. We would expect literally thousands of Corvettes per planet, and we see no indication of that. It would mean planet dwellers can travel easily from one planet to another, for the price of a plane ticket. However, we see no such traffic. I don’t believe a hyperlight warp capable vessel is so affordable.

Under my system, the price is more than 3 billion dollars. This strikes me as far more believable. If Earth were within the EvE universe, several wealthy corporations would own corvettes, but these would not be accessible to the general public. From here, the price increases dramatically, as we should expect with such powerful vessels. A planetary governor with an orbital defense budget of 1 trillion planetary dollars, would have enough isk to buy frigates, and maybe even a destroyer.

I think you may be confused with Quafe+ and/or making stuff up.

And I’m assuming you have not read one since 2016 at the latest.

I might give it a try if you can link me the lore that describes planetary exports.

As noted, that varies from item to item.

Protein Delicacies are cheap and nutritious food products manufactured by one of the Caldari mega corporations, Sukuuvestaa. It comes in many flavors and tastes delicious. Despite its cheap price and abundance it is favored by many gourmet chefs in some of the finest restaurants around for its rich, earthy flavor and fragrance.

You don’t see every bit of the lore represented in the game. I do not remember seeing anything in the lore that would suggest FTL travel is very expensive, quite the opposite.

It is prohibitively expensive. My spaceship travels thousands of times faster than the speed of light. If you think that’s cheap, you aren’t thinking.

Give me a source or you’re not debating honestly with your borderline ad hominem. In game, FTL travel is free.