A change in highsec mechanics to encourage new blood

(jita lolol) #1

Curios to think what people think CCP should to to attract new players . I have pondered this since reading this artlice.

To me this article highlights how Goons became a powerhouse once more and why NC PL shoot themselves in the foot with the elite pvp attitude to industry. That would be the safety the supercap umbrella provides there industry. In the same token i think some form of Mechanic change needs to take place in high sec to protect newb corps and players can grow. I think removal of wardec system and a change not to allow weapons engage until at mission sites would be the most radical but effective solution . Before a newb can learn to pvp they have to learn how to ship fit and do logistical work safely. Which right now they cant due in high sec due wardec greifers or just gankers in general .At his rate i think the game will die without true new blood in it . Look at the log in numbers tell you average daily player count is probably below 20k in real terms. (Pere person not toon)

(Black Pedro) #2

Yeah, -1.

I fail to see the link between the economic success of the Imperium and highsec. Highsec has the “supercapital” umbrella of CONCORD already, which is free and perfect for all players. I don’t see how the game would be better if there was even more safety in highsec.

In fact, I can see many places where it would be worse. Much destruction goes on in highsec, and if you remove that demand for industrialists you would be hurting them, not helping them. If anything, we should be making highsec (and nullsec) more dangerous to increase the demand for things in New Eden.

Plus, there is the problem that wars are the only way to remove structures. There would be literally no point having fitting options, or defences on player structures in highsec because they would be invulnerable and impossible to remove. This alone means wars will never be just deleted. They have to at a minimum be replaced with something else.

And why make only missions safe? If you are going to make highsec free of non-consensual PvP, what about explorers and miners? I mean, you already can avoid wars completely by just staying gin the NPC corp so they are consensual already.

From everything CCP has said, and all the data they release like the MER, I see no evidence that a too dangerous highsec is a problem. If anything, it seems more likely to me that highsec is too boring and safe, or perhaps the social connections too hard to make and it too difficult for new players to find their place, rather than highsec is too dangerous for new players. The treatment for this isn’t making everyone safer and reducing further the limited content left in the game nor is that going to draw/retain new blood better.

So no, I don’t think a perfectly safe highsec would be an especially good feature for this PvP game.

(Jint Hikaru) #3

I guess its been a while since we had a ‘Eve is gonna die unless we make Hisec carebearland’ thread…

Newbs have the starting systems, where they shouldn’t really be bothered by the big nasty people.
Ad as has probably been stated above me, having the full HiSec to run industry in absolute safety will not be good for the game at all. And no WarDecs to remove structures ??? LOL

(jita lolol) #4

with regards to structure spam i can see your point. Always though structures should degrade and require some material upkeep personally . Put at the same time the difference in null to high sec is simple. IF YOU see a neut you know there out to kill you. Its a lot harder in high-sec to differentiate enemies from passiers by

(ShahFluffers) #5

This is a simple “fix” that can be done on the players’ side of things:

Always assume everyone flying around or near you is a potential enemy and fit / fly accordingly.

The only real fundamental difference between high-sec space and everywhere else is that aggression comes with a cost.
Whether it be in terms of war-dec fees, CONCORD nuking the offending ships, security status (and the consequences thereof)… there is some kind of cost.


  • Newbies are already protected from wars by being in the NPC corporations. Even if newbies join a player corporation, they still have the option to drop back down to the NPC level.

  • There is a thought out there that players need to be in a corporation to learn how to organize effectively. I would argue that learning the ropes of the game and/or how to organize is not contingent on being in a player corporation.
    Learning how to organize is something done between people… either on chat channels or audio. Corporations merely make such organizations “official.”
    Hell… some of the most industrious organizations don’t actually have their industry / logistics in the actual corporation. Those are kept “outside” and in an NPC corp precisely because said organizations are “immune” to war declarations.
    All “organizing” is done without the support of the game.

The outgoing structure, POSs (Player Owned Starbases), were like this. it did not stop their proliferation.
Even the current citadel structures are somewhat like this if the owner wants to do anything other than have a large “ornament” in space.

But let’s say that structure upkeep costs are dramatically increased and will result in the structure “disintegrating” if not maintained:

  • Potentially, the bar for putting up a structure effectively “locks out” smaller groups due to the high costs. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it would reduce structure spam… but then comes the next two points…
  • Higher operational costs often results in consolidation of certain interest groups. This means only the organizations with the deepest pockets or most broad organization structures will be able to maintain such structures. Again, not bad by itself.
  • Taking the above two points together: Larger organizations with more money and larger networks raise the “entry bar” for smaller, less wealthy groups as the latter can be “overpowered.”

Some ingame examples (that are grossly simplified) of situations like this:

  • War Declaration changes making wars more costly and tedious. The results were merc and ransom groups swallowing each other up to be able to absorb the costs and smaller war entities being crowded out by ever larger and more organized war parties.
  • Null-sec Sovereignty and the proliferation capital / supercapital ships (do I really need to go into any detail about this?)

Pro-tip 1: No matter how many fitting simulations a person does, they will will never be quite ready until they actually do it a few times.

Pro-tip 2: Even if one knows how to fit a ship for PvP… they really don’t. Due to the nature of PvP in EVE, ship fits are ever evolving and alway require new fits and tactics. Sometime those tactics include “running away.”

Pro-tip 3: PvP is more of a mentality than skill.
Side Story: Back when I was more active, I would often help and even recruit players that actually WANTED to “blow ■■■■ up” despite them having crappy skills and/or ship fits. And I would often ignore or reject players who came to me with their “good skills” and “good fits.”
This is because you can TEACH people how to fit ships and use them more effectively (especially when explosions are involved). But you can’t teach people how to think or have a better attitude.

(Rivr Luzade) #6

Most of the contemporary new blood is not interested in the core values of EVE and only seeks frags and safety in big numbers, which is why they join CFC, PH or TEST and is therefor worthless.

CCP has given up on this, too, because every MER in the last 3 months has become less and less informative. The latest step was the removal of important destroyed/minined/NPC bounty bar diagrams which at a glance show what is wrong with EVE in order to obscure the issues.

(Dark Engraver) #7

Problem is those old douchebags hiding in highsec else CCP would’ve done this already

(Wanda Fayne) #8

I would like to see more combat in highsec. Not just from the mercs and wardeccers, the gankers and hubhumpers but from the average Jack and Jill players. PvP combat should be normalized and people shouldn’t feel the need to fly expensive ships just to take part.

I always felt that part of the NPE should be a mandatory stint in Lowsec faction warfare. A few missions and exploratory operations that don’t really matter if you get blown up or not but that you simply take part. I did a few experiences there early on and found that being blown up is fun! Especially when you don’t worry about affordable losses. I made some really good friends there, too.

To each their own, I suppose, but nobody should be made to feel that losing your ship, cargo or structure is a bug deal when you are early in your Eve experience.

(jita lolol) #9

Not everyone plays eve to pvp some play eve tp pve , mission build, invent . They should have th opportunity to do that safely

(Jint Hikaru) #10

You know Eve is a PvP game right? I mean, its pretty obvious, i’m sure its explained clearly before the start of the game… everyone knows this right? I mean isn’t that what Eve is famous for?

Being able to perform industry in complete safety would have a significant impact on the game economy as a whole. Why should some people have that advantage over other people who are subject to WarDecs and ganking etc.

(Omnathious Deninard) #11

Fixed that for you.

(Daichi Yamato) #12

You fundamentally misunderstand eve.

It’s a full time pvp sandbox. The nature of the game and the economy is that it’s not optional. Or the whole game falls apart.

(ShahFluffers) #13

The thing is… the game mechanics kinda force ALL players to dabble in ALL things to some degree. And the system does not mechanically guarantee “success” or “safety” for anyone.

Saying that non-PvP players should be able operate in safety “because they don’t like PvP” would be like a hardcore PvPer saying that he/she should not have to get new stuff after dying because he/she does not “like doing industry/PvE.”

Both are equally ridiculous statements within the context of EVE.

If one wants to effectively PvP, one has to learn Industry/PvE.
If one wants to effectively PvE, one has to learn PvP.

(Race Leader) #14

You the same guy that wrote this?


Cause I think the one is reddit is a better idea than yours here.

(jita lolol) #15

no but thats a interesting solution that could work for war dec mechanics. ALthough i would reduce the scale effect to under 40m a war then add 40m for each additional war. That could curb war-deccers interest in easy targets . Still got the gank problem thoe

(Salt Foambreaker) #16

If they don’t like PvP they should not be here. Joining a game that is not what they want and then trying to change the game premise, in spite of the existing players enjoying it, is just selfish.

(Race Leader) #17

I dont have any problem with ganks, its the bumping mechanic that is stupid.

(QuakeGod) #18

I tell you what. You find a way to get rid of AFK’ers and mining bot fleets, and then you can get rid of bumping…

(Teckos Pech) #19

No. -1

EVE seemed to do best when it was pretty much, “Here’s your noob ship, now ■■■■ off.”

There isn’t much in EVE that isn’t PvP when one takes PvP to mean player competition.

(Yaosus) #20

Removal of the wardec system. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: epic