A Request to relook at resource allocation's

[Teckos_Pech]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Increasing isk rewards wont reduce PLEX price, it will only increase it faster.

Increasing resource yields wont improve harvester/manufacture profits, only reduce them further.

Agreed. IRL the above is a good thing. But IRL we can make all sorts of things. In game what we can produce is limited and more and more of it is not going to produce nearly the same benefits as IRL. Even if you have 15 zealots you can only fly one at a time. Sure having a spare is great. Having two is okay. Having 14…not so much.

[Teckos_Pech]

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

WTF are you talking about, I mentioned NOTHING about infinite supplies of lumber.

Veldspar and more broadly asteroids are a renewable resource. Still there is not an infinite amount of veldspar or tritanium on the market at any given time. This is trivially obvious. Similarly if we take a range of time this is true.

Trees are a renewable resource too, but IRL. And like veldspar it does not mean we have infinite wood or lumber. At any given time there is finite wood and lumber. Same thing with a range of time.

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

I really dont know to tell your doctor to up your meds or stop them completely but whatever voices are talking to you are not mine.

Hi Anjyl.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

Your constant posting of demeaning replies and flaming others is inappropriate and should be reported.

[Mayhaw_Morgan]

@Teckos_Pech

Trees are a renewable resource too, but IRL. And like veldspar it does not mean we have infinite wood or lumber. At any given time there is finite wood and lumber. Same thing with a range of time

Trees are part of an ecosystem. Ecosystems have a carrying capacity for any given organism found within them. While it would be possible to spawn as much lumber as there is carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen in the environment commensurate with that amount of lumber, in all practical sense, there is a FINITE amount of lumber that can reasonably be extracted from a given ecosystem over given, relatively long timeframe.

Veldspar is not part of an ecosystem. There is no carrying capacity of veldspar for any given solar system in EVE, letalone for the entire cluster, but assuming there was, who cares? That carrying capacity would be reset every day after downtime. There is already more veldspar than can practically be put to use, i.e. there is an inexhaustible supply of veldspar . . . well, in null security space, anyway, where the big rocks are.

Are you seriously trying to argue that there is not enough veldspar to mine? Quit trolling.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

In my opinion both you and Justified Arrogance are in the wrong. Instead of disrupting the thread and resorting to personal attacks, could just ignore it and continue the topic convo in a sociable manner. Posting demeaning remarks at someone is usually done in an attempt to appear superior and incite rage, more than likely that being the expected outcome. No matter what the original intent was, it definitely disrupts the convo and derails the thread topic.

[Mayhaw_Morgan]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Instead of disrupting the thread and resorting to personal attacks, could just ignore it and continue the topic convo in a sociable manner.

We’re not disrupting the thread. HE is disrupting the thread. That’s the point of being intentionally obtuse, to disrupt the flow of communication between others. There is a reason they call it “antisocial” behavior. It disrupts sociality.

If you think WE are disrupting the thread, then take your own advice and ignore us. That works; right?

@DeMichael_Crimson

Posting demeaning remarks at someone is usually done in an attempt to appear superior and incite rage

He’s either arguing that there are infinite trees or finite veldspar. Do either of those sound like reasonable arguments to you?

If I told you there were infinite fish or gold or Toyotas, I should reasonably expect that at some point, you would conclude I was an idiot.
If I told you there were a finite number of the letter ‘M’ in my keyboard, I should reasonably expect that at some point, you would conclude I was an idiot.
Being the reasonable person that I like to think I am, I would have to agree with you. What would be the point of saying something so idiotic?

[DeMichael_Crimson]

@Mayhaw_Morgan

If you think WE are disrupting the thread, then take your own advice and ignore us. That works; right?

Point taken and as such, reporting is the best way to ignore.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Makshima_Shogo

Back in the good days belt ratting/anom’s where pretty good, when Plex price was 350/400mil per month sub. Isk has been spiraling out of control it is now worth 4x less than it did back then, but rat bounties have not changed 1 bit to compensate. I understand that ratting carriers would then become too strong if rat bounties on belts and anoms would all of a sudden rise, so to counter this I request that unrated sites have much higher rat bounties and that the sites are gated so that carriers cannot access them, and that the bounties on the sites increased with the site difficulty, maybe including DED’s into this equation as they are very difficult sites to run with often 0 drops at the end to make up for the hours spent.

1. Increasing isk reward from ratting/anoms/unrated/DED wont decrease PLEX price. It will only increase it as players earn more isk, thus buying more PLEX and driving supply down even further.

2. Incursions, currently already, introduce FAR less isk into EVE than bounties. Risk to Incursion fleets pretty much comes from PvP. Its up to the player base to introduce that, not CCP.

3. Gating unrated sites against caps is an option, but A) Will enrage Nullbears/cap players B) Change unrated sites in terms of PvP accessibility. C) Some high-end unrated sites are not practical to run without caps.

4. We havent discussed escalations yet, which can be very lucrative.

5. This wont “balance” HS/NS income. It will increase NS income even further past HS income.

6. It wont lure players out of HS, due to the fact that players in HS are in HS due to being risk averse, not due to profit.

7. In conclusion, your suggestions make the problems you seek to fix, worse, not better.

---

Of all the above, your proposal (aside from reward changes) basically boils down to preventing caps entering unrated sites (perhaps escalations).

Ill leave that to the distinguished panel here to decide on.

[Abyss_Azizora]

@Fluffy_Moe

@Makshima_Shogo

High Sec mission running 20-40mil an hour

Thats false. Extremely false. Give it a try. To make that kind of ISK per hour you need to grind factions for at minimum 6 months, more like a year, then once you get ceirtain factions high enough (you do understand different faction payouts and how that works right?), then you need to have burners for that faction on farm, and farm the ones that send you to LS, not HS. And then maybe, just maybe, you’ll hit the 20 mil / hour mark. But thats before you factor in the time it will take you to convert your LP and sell stuff, which is a chore in itself as well.

Have you ever tried to farm burners like that ? Do you even have a clue what that takes and what the risks are ? For that matter, do any of the people botting (scuse me, carrier ratting) in NS have a clue ? All their hypocrit ■■■■ about risk vs reward goes straight out the window.

Sometimes, on SOME missions, which is heavily RNG dependant, you can get 20ish mil by full clears, those take a lot more then an hour though. And they are the ones that people who just blitz actually avoid because on average the payout is too low to be worth the trouble. You basically kill and loot everything and just hope for a lot of Meta 4 stuff.

While your correct that 20m an hour is not guaranteed in HS without canceling possible strings of bad mission rolls, it’s actually quite easy to do more than 40m an hour, every hour, all day long. If your struggling to do 20m an hour on average… your doing something very VERY wrong. Doing a mix of burners and faction tag missions I’m easily getting 40-60m an hour every single hour. (That’s bypassing most of the worthless missions.)

If your struggling to reach that, I can point you to some guides on how to runs lvl 4’s optimally.

Anyway back on the topic at hand… Honestly I think 90% of mass isk inflation can be blamed entirely on nullsec carrier/super ratting anoms. Those just need to be nerfed, easiest method is to gate lock out supers, and nerf the income for carriers.

[Makshima_Shogo]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Increasing isk reward from ratting/anoms/unrated/DED wont decrease PLEX price. It will only increase it as players earn more isk, thus buying more PLEX and driving supply down even further.

It was increasing isk reward from unrated and ded not ratting or anom’s, as most of the huge amounts of isk coming out of null is from anom’s and carrier/super ratting. But yes this won’t help with isk inflation as was said in posts futher down rather read everything before quoting as we have already been through all this.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Makshima_Shogo

It was increasing isk reward from unrated and ded not ratting or anom’s, as most of the huge amounts of isk coming out of null is from anom’s and carrier/super ratting. But yes this won’t help with isk inflation as was said in posts futher down rather read everything before quoting as we have already been through all this.

1. Right. And since that isk is from anoms/ratting, buffing reward from unrated/DED will just increase isk inflation and NS profits alongside that (even if gated against caps)

2. Notably it doesnt really matter if unrated/DED can be run with caps or not. It just changes the completion time, not the reward. Even if you can run them faster, it doesnt much translate into running more of them/day, due to the random respawn mechanics.

3. Sorry. Havent read whole thread. I often prefer to address OP directly when I’m entering a thread for first time.

---

Have you a modified suggestion as a result of this thread?

[Makshima_Shogo]

Yea, no worries a lot of people have put up a lot of data that has changed the idea’s originally discussed, almost as a collective approach to try and find a solution.

P.S. No have not really modified a whole lot just bit’s here and there so my original post is pretty flawed, there isn’t a clear way to solve all problems yet, it needs more design thought from everyone.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Sucks being OP.

I think your intent was good.

[Makshima_Shogo]

Hey if I have to take a little flak in order for CCP to make a move to save the game so be it lol sounds like a good deal to me.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

You are still talking out your ass here Teckos. Your argument hinges on that Eve is literally identical to the real world, which it is not. its very nature as a game removes that difference. And so unless you tweak your real world ideologies they dont apply perfectly in a 1:1 correlation. This is what I am trying to tell you.

Jevons and his ideas dont apply because veldspar in the real world will take thousands if not millions of years to “reproduce”, “respawn” or be created; think diamonds, coal or oil here. While some things like grass and animals reproduce and therefore respawn quickly or ‘quicker’ in nature if you mined out all the iron or gold in the world there would effectively be no more tomorrow. While in Eve tomorrow, after downtime, you see more veldspar. And you see this each day, every day.

You CAN argue that the respawn rates for Eve are WAY higher than the ones for the real world sure. But then your real world ideas of supply and demand still need to be skewed and changed. The entire point of my argument in fact. You cant apply them perfectly and so many of your arguments are untrue, not because they arent correct in idea but in implementation. You need to account for such changes and deviations from ‘reality’ so to speak.

Its the same nature as the argument all Eve players are psychopaths and sociopaths. Correlations in the crossovers from real world to game world changes a LOT of things.

Ill see your replay soon Im sure.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Your constant posting of demeaning replies and flaming others is inappropriate and should be reported.

I’m trying to care but as you might already have guessed i dont.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@DeMichael_Crimson

In my opinion both you and Justified Arrogance are in the wrong. Instead of disrupting the thread and resorting to personal attacks, could just ignore it and continue the topic convo in a sociable manner. Posting demeaning remarks at someone is usually done in an attempt to appear superior and incite rage, more than likely that being the expected outcome. No matter what the original intent was, it definitely disrupts the convo and derails the thread topic.

You need to go back to where the insults started and you will find that Teckos Pech tossed one at me before I ever made one at him, he is getting back what he started. At least know what you are talking about and whom is in the wrong before you start spouting off.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

As you so eloquently put it, I’m trying to care but as you might have already guessed, I don’t.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

@DeMichael_Crimson

As you so eloquently put it, I’m trying to care but as you might have already guessed, I don’t.

I know youre not talking to me DMC but youve been here on the forums for a long time so I know you care.

Stop saying you dont… we all know youre lying about that.

We all care, its why we post.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

I’m trying to care but as you might already have guessed i dont.

That’s a problem.
We are a community here, despite our differences, talking about a game.

Take a walk and rethink your attitude.