Yeah, I’m glad I made a few for myself while I could still mine the materials with relative ease and in relative peace. I even built a freighter in 2020, mined the minerals solo - can’t imagine me doing that now unless by rejoining an alliance since the ore anoms disappeared. I daresay that some of those ccp devs seriously underestimate the satisfaction some of us players receive from doing a relatively involving project solo, building a ship from the smallest nut and bolt to the last armor plate. Perhaps they were never personally involved in it.
Another aspect that is worrying is that the pressure on “small time builders” will push the game even further towards monopolization by the large coalitions. After controling the vast majority of space (low/null/w) they started to control the market (TTT and other small trade hub chains). Now that control will extend to the manufacturing of relatively simple (t1/faction) ships. Okay, EvE is Real. But does it really have to be THAT real ?
Well As aI say, I dont consider any of the examples given here to be small operators. They are basically EvE’s middle class. You can tell by their insistance on highly specialised outputs which get disrupted like now quite easily.
In regards to a monopolisation, I honestly dont see what is particualrly good or bad about it. If you have some insights, I honestly would be interested to know what it is that you fear, incase I need to fear it too.
You’ll have to wait a few more minutes before I can push “reply”, lol. But here goes, and it is of course my very personal vision/feeling about New Eden and how it is fun for me personally. A lot of it is about freedom. You can find a post by me somewhere when I say that “renting space” is about the most miserable aspect of emerging gameplay in EvE. It is control and monopoly. One is allowed to do something on condition that one pays to another (group of) player(s) who would squish you if you didn’t. The one exception was provi bloc because it didn’t occupy anything financially worthwhile at the time (times/resources have changed now).
What I find particularly uncomfortable is that when some party shoots down your ship you will most likely buy another ship from that same party, making them ‘win’ twice and making them richer twice. I know, it’s perhaps childish, but I really dislike the possibility that large blocs or bob forbid, blue donuts, control major aspects in hisec space as well as on their home turfs. It makes it oppressive and takes away the sense of freedom. Monopolies are considered bad, because they give too much power and control without recourse. In the case of manufacturing and trading, ending up making the same group wealthier at your expense is tantamount to selling your freedom and what little influence you may have.
Not to mention in high sec you reach a plateau, now that plateau seems lowered because these blocks will just take whatever space in high sec they want.
The DEV’s in their thoughts I believe want to put eve back into more PVP and less PVE because PVE requires more work, writing stories, code, lore, while making the reasons for doing PVE interesting, with PVP there’s only ship adjustments nerf this, buff that, to me from a PVE and industrial point of view I believe there is an element of laziness in DEV’s pushing for more PVP aspects so we can then go back to the PVE grind we have and keep quite about content.
A very nicely written piece and makes sense. Id have to say the only thing is I dont think it would affect me more than it would affect the game, so Im pretty ambivalent. There’s always a bigger fish after all.
search for anti-trust laws.
The wiki page explains you why cartels and trusts are a bad thing from an economical point of view. (short version : in a market of good, you want stability for people to buy, and stability requires free and undistorted competition at least in the market, therefore you need to adapt the price of your goods solely on your own performance on said market).
What would happen in Eve, is that people can set an arbitrarily high price on items. It’s the same thing as for the TTT : they are killing the competition, which then will allow them to set the price as high as they want. (Their past promise to not do are not legally binding). The benefit of the operation are used among other to keep their competition dead, instead of improving the service.
Now it’s not because an item is required that it becomes the monopole of a cartel. That’s just one more thing to fear.
In the case of the TTT, that “fish” is a de facto trust of forces that are now battling it out in Delve, oh sweet irony… And @Anderson_Geten explained it better than I did.
On the surface the new changes to the blueprints are “interesting” in their new complexity, starting with battleships. However, to manage that complexity even the large alliances etc will require an even better supervision and planning effort to deal with anything bigger than battleships. If that is “your” thing “you” will have a ball, but only if you can delegate portions of the lower level tasks because so many factors now come into play. Yes, very much like real life projects, and you either love it and thrive or be overwhelmed by it (the majority of players).
Of course there will be more emerging gameplay in the margin. Given that materials now have very different origins (e.g. wormhole gas) or for practical reasons will need to be obtained from several contractors, waylaying transports will undoubtedly become even more of a thing than Niarja ever saw. So will spying, etc. Undoubtedly these changes will give certain play styles fresh oxygen.
But, we started from independent “small time builders” not being in a position anymore to produce t1/faction battleships from a to z. And that, in my opinion, is a loss for far more players than a gain for highwaymen or project managers. And as Andersen pointed out, a loss for fair market competition on those same levels.
You are of course right. It’s nothing we don’t face irl already. But does EvE really have to be THAT real ? Do we play this game just to mimic real life ? I love my opportunity for escapism, not so much the opportunity to see that EvE lets the same old human behavior go on a rampage and produce the exact same results as in the real world, where feudal mechanisms are never really gone and just waiting to resurface.
And that leaves my first question still unanswered: wth was wrong with battleships and faction ships that they needed to be included in this ? Are they a buffer of sorts when pvp turns back to battleship fights instead of cap fleets ? Is it because r4 moons and PI needed some tender loving care ?
You both are right in your reading, you just both overlook that those of us who choose to be outside of competing with others directly already have nothing but people above us who have power and influence. Surviving entertainingly has been my way to find enjoyment both in game and in real life when faced with this reality.
Are sub BS faction ships included?
I dunno, CCP never give a proper answer to anything, so who knows, but it IS funny that the majority of ships that require co-op play to be the most effective have received the biggest hits, whichs leadfs me to believe that CCP have done this purely to give groups more to do, and make it harder (in their heads) for solo operators to do stuff, but really, Ive already made enough from when I made BSes myself and stocked em till recently, so Its not effecting me at all.
The problem with pirat BS is that they are going very down in price, to the point navy BS are just worse than the pirats. A main reason is the LP offers for navy BS is very bad.
CCP needs a way to increase the price of pirat ships without increasing the price of navy ships, typically by reducing the availability of gas required for pirat ships.
Oh, I’ve never had dreams of competing, I just love building my own stuff.
And that was why I enjoyed being in provi bloc for years. It allowed me to try game aspects that were impossible in hisec, while still giving me a (naive) sense of freedom away from the bigger blocs - well, at least until PL or some other power bloc came bursting in and we all went into cow mode and go “look at the choochoo”. You, although you probably are going to deny this vehemently, would have fitted in provi nicely
AS it happens, I had a great little operation going on down there until a combination of Drifters, Cyno changes and the disintegration of CVA made me consider other options
The DEVS are pushing out the old players that put food on the table of the DEVS family’s for over a decade in favor for the new players they hope to attract and have contributed nothing to the longevity of EVE. EVE was my retirement plan until the DEVS and CSM destroyed the game. All you DEVS and CSM 15 created is an overwhelming advantage for blob game play of have and have not. You pushed the small guys right out of the game.
Using a LP store to convert tech 1 to faction does not require any new industry resources. The LP price hasnt even changed.
Before 1000 LP was equivalent to 1 million isk on average. But since the industry changes I bet that price doubled. So for FW at tier 3 a small complex neys 35k lp. Thats roughly 15 minutes. A novice nets 17k lp at 10 minutes. You need 40k LP to change a tech 1 cruiser to faction.
So you could literally be churning out over 1 billion or more in a few hours by cashing in LP. Thats my industry with a side of pvp.
okay so you have to differentiate the FW LP and the non FW. They don’t have same acquisition rates.
let’s check the raven navy from raven+az-1
it requires
raven
600k LP
az-1 nexus ship
the 600 kLP can be converted now to 453M isk to direct orders(755 isk/LP)
The raven can be sold to 330M
The ship is worth 6M
so instead of making a RNI you can just make 790M to direct orders - while the RNI is 730M to direct order.
Now for machs it’s actually worse in terms of LP store. But machs BPC drop from rats, while RNI don’t - that means the price of the machs is driven by farm of rats, while the price of RNI si driven by the LP value : if the LP is farmed more, then its value is reduced (theoretically) to the point where it’s more valuable to make RNI than other offers.
The problem is that, in our case, the price of machs was below the price of RNI. So CCP needs a way to specifically modify the pirat/faction relation of price.
also, no, that price did not change - but it changes all the time so …
A BPC for faction BS is way cheaper in fw. But to convert a BS hull is only 450k LP. LP values are varied depending on the faction of course. Im just saying fw LP value literally doubled. It will take time to manifest.
160m isk. To build a Astero. As of now, Jita.
Next’s what? “Bring your ships with you when entering Eve”?
Way in, in the magnificient world of Eve, where ships are so expensive you cannot buy then?
