About wardeckers in High Sec and solution

[Salvos_Rhoska]

Get wardecced.
Re-corp.
Rinse. Repeat.

Its a bit stupid but at least its a minor isk sink.

[Black_Pedro]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Forum fail. Please delete post.

Can’t you delete your own posts now on the new forums?

[Markus_Jameson]

@Black_Pedro

Can’t you delete your own posts now on the new forums?

Yes… someone else found / pointed it out for me when I had to ask before (I forget who?).

The 3 small dots in a row bottom right of the post.

Click that & you get more options.

On your own posts one is a trash bin.

[Lena_Crews]

@Black_Pedro

@Lena_Crews

Okay… I have to laugh.

This is the most non-eve statement I’ve ever read: “Wars are honourable combat between two groups.”

Highsec wars are nothing but honourable. They are much more akin to an old-timey duel where one side calls out another to settle a matter of honour on the field of battle than a modern war. In highsec, one side calls the other out and they have 24 hours arrange their affairs and prepare for the contest, secure allies to assist them, or if they lack the stones, reject the challenge by dropping to the NPC corp. If they accept though CONCORD steps aside so the honourable contest can proceed much like the local constabulary would when noblemen were settling their difference with pistols or swords over a matter of honour in past times.

Since the 24h notice and the ability to leave at anytime makes wars purely consensual, they are a noble fight where glory and honour are paramount like for the knights of olde. They have little in common with the “dirty wars” of nullsec and of modern Earth where consent is optional.

If you lack the courage or honour to defend your banner, perhaps it would be best to just to stay in the NPC corp and leave the glory of fighting in wars for the noble class of New Eden that does.

What you are describing is the duel system in EVE. High sec wars (and ganks) are muggings. The only difference is concord punishes one and ignores the other due to the bribe paid to them. Duels… are duels.

[Black_Pedro]

@Lena_Crews

What you are describing is the duel system in EVE. High sec wars (and ganks) are muggings. The only difference is concord punishes one and ignores the other due to the bribe paid to them. Duels… are duels.

No, duels are between individuals. What I am describing is the mechanic for honourable combat between groups in highsec. It is the only mechanisms by which two sides can agree to honourable fight (relatively) free of interference of outsiders.

Mugging implies some sort of coercion but you are never forced to undock while in a war. You are given notice and can always accept dishonour and leave a war with a single click of the mouse. They are optional so choosing to defend your honour and then complaining that you were beaten after accepting the challenge just makes you a bad sport, not the victim of some crime. Ganking, I will agree with you is a mugging and as such is subject to all the lop-sided penalties you called for. Suicide gank and you as a law-breaker have to take on all of New Eden.

If you don’t want to deal with wars, then don’t. Not everyone has the courage or competence to be part of the noble landholding class. In the NPC corp one is safe from challenges to their honour (as you obviously have none) and will always have the protection of the law. Every society needs stratification and people to do the menial tasks and service their betters. Lowly things like mining, hauling and mission running, which frees up time for the nobility to get on with the real business of waging wars and running the economy.

Wars are a noble and honourable pursuit, almost a sport for the braver capsuleers among us, and if a corporation can’t deal with matters of honour like wars, one has to question whether it has any right to exist at all.

[Lena_Crews]

@Black_Pedro

@Lena_Crews

What you are describing is the duel system in EVE. High sec wars (and ganks) are muggings. The only difference is concord punishes one and ignores the other due to the bribe paid to them. Duels… are duels.

Mugging implies some sort of coercion but you are never forced to undock while in a war.

And you are never forced to leave your home when muggers are out on your street. It’s still a mugging when they mug you. That argument is kind of stupid.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Lena_Crews

What you are describing is the duel system in EVE. High sec wars (and ganks) are muggings. The only difference is concord punishes one and ignores the other due to the bribe paid to them. Duels… are duels.

No, what he is describing is a challenge to combat system at the group level, not a one-on-one challenge.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Lena_Crews

And you are never forced to leave your home when muggers are out on your street. It’s still a mugging when they mug you. That argument is kind of stupid.

It is not a mugging. With a mugging you are attacked unawares. With a war dec you are warned that you could end up in a hostile engagement. A mugging will draw a response from law enforcement, a war dec does not because you have cleared your actions with CONCORD and a payment to do so.

[Lena_Crews]

@Teckos_Pech

@Lena_Crews

And you are never forced to leave your home when muggers are out on your street. It’s still a mugging when they mug you. That argument is kind of stupid.

A mugging will draw a response from law enforcement, a war dec does not because you have cleared your actions with CONCORD and a payment to do so.

Which is why I said a wardec is a mugging where you bribed concord (the police) and a ganking is one where you didn’t. It’s still one party attacking another party who doesn’t want to be attacked. Premeditation or knowledge of the possibility of being mugged does not transform the event into something other than a mugging.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Lena_Crews

Which is why I said a wardec is a mugging where you bribed concord (the police) and a ganking is one where you didn’t. It’s still one party attacking another party who doesn’t want to be attacked. Premeditation or knowledge of the possibility of being mugged does not transform the event into something other than a mugging.

It is still not a mugging. A mugging is something one does from surprise with no warning. With a war dec you are warned. It is a duel between groups.

A gank is akin to mugging because there is no warning. Or more accurately ganking is more akin to piracy–you attack a ship for the cargo value.

And possibility is incorrect, you know with certainty that you are now in a special case in terms of the rules regarding combat in HS. You know with certainty that if you run across one or more of this subset of players you can be legally attacked.

[Black_Pedro]

@Lena_Crews

And you are never forced to leave your home when muggers are out on your street. It’s still a mugging when they mug you. That argument is kind of stupid.

I don’t know why you keep pretending you have no choice but to participate in wars. You can opt out of the war at any time and when you leave your house the muggers can’t touch you.

You are never forced to leave your house while at war. Just say ‘uncle’ and click the ‘leave corporation’ button and you can dance down the street with not a care in the world about wars.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Think of highsec as a game reserve, Concord are the game wardens and they issue licenses to hunters (wardec corps) to go after specific game; gankers are poachers, they kill game without having a licence.

Therein lays the difference. One party are licenced hunters, the others are poachers.

[Markus_Jameson]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

Think of highsec as a game reserve, Concord are the game wardens and they issue licenses to hunters (wardec corps) to go after specific game; gankers are poachers

Oh this is beautiful thank you for this image as a simile it’s almost perfect

[Daliena_Talvanen]

@Lena_Crews

Which is why I said a wardec is a mugging where you bribed concord (the police) and a ganking is one where you didn’t. It’s still one party attacking another party who doesn’t want to be attacked. Premeditation or knowledge of the possibility of being mugged does not transform the event into something other than a mugging.

More like the police getting on the phone, declaring a state of emergency and warning you that YOU ARE GOING OUT AT YOUR OWN PERIL because you know, there’s a freaking war going on, and you then ignore it, run out and mumble about why the cops didn’t save you from getting shot.

There is no real other mechanic to settle differences between high-sec entities, and your corporations are by no means affiliated with the Empires so they’re not bound to intervene. CONCORD does it because they’ve taken the duty upon themselves, but in this world, it is perfectly legal (with the right fee and warning time) to declare that you don’t like someone’s face and would like to shoot it.

[Lena_Crews]

@Daliena_Talvanen

@Lena_Crews

Which is why I said a wardec is a mugging where you bribed concord (the police) and a ganking is one where you didn’t. It’s still one party attacking another party who doesn’t want to be attacked. Premeditation or knowledge of the possibility of being mugged does not transform the event into something other than a mugging.

More like the police getting on the phone, declaring a state of emergency and warning you that YOU ARE GOING OUT AT YOUR OWN PERIL because you know, there’s a freaking war going on, and you then ignore it, run out and mumble about why the cops didn’t save you from getting shot.

There is no real other mechanic to settle differences between high-sec entities, and your corporations are by no means affiliated with the Empires so they’re not bound to intervene. CONCORD does it because they’ve taken the duty upon themselves, but in this world, it is perfectly legal (with the right fee and warning time) to declare that you don’t like someone’s face and would like to shoot it.

And all I’m saying is that if you’re the type of person who thinks it’s fine to go around and shoot people’s faces that you don’t like… a good samaritan should be able to step and and beat the crap out of you in response… and not have to bribe concord with another wardec to do so.

I’m not sure why adding more content for the ones looking for a fight is a bad thing.

[Juvir_Shadowborne]

I have to disagree with all of the OP: The whole point of paying for the wardec to Concord, is that you’re paying them for the right to wage this war. Sec status is set by Concord, and that fee “sanctions” the war. You lose sec status when you attack random people because it isn’t “sanctioned” warfare. I.E. I pay concord my wardec fee, it’s now a sanctioned war with the wardecced corporation, and nobody loses any security status. So if they want to dock up like cowards, that’s their right. If they want to try and ignore it and bloob it up in highsec missions, that’s their right (but they’re going to lose a TON of ships).

[Lady_Ayeipsia]

Because you are assuming the aggressor is looking just to fight everyone. If they wanted to fight everyone, they would leave hi sec.

Yet in many instances, wars are between two groups and only two groups and that is how they want it. If you want my POCO because I locked you out with a 100% tax rate, why should you have to take on everyone to get it but I only have to defend against you?

If your corp us strip mining the belts bare and I want a chance at that ore, why must I fight you and everyone? If you keep claiming your corp is better and smack talking me in local, if I want to shut you up in an aggressive manner, why must I fight you and everyone else.

One more point, under your system why would mercs declare war? They could just go after anyone else foolish enough to declare a war. Now the mercs get free content and industrialists have no way of fighting to take anything without fighting the world. Or at least admit you just don’t want to face a war dec ever, in which case may be eve is not the game for you.

[Daliena_Talvanen]

@Lena_Crews

And all I’m saying is that if you’re the type of person who thinks it’s fine to go around and shoot people’s faces that you don’t like… a good samaritan should be able to step and and beat the crap out of you in response… and not have to bribe concord with another wardec to do so.

I’m not sure why adding more content for the ones looking for a fight is a bad thing.

I have never, EVER in my life been a part of an offensive war. In a past life on a different character I lost some of my first cruisers to people roaming around in a gang of T3’s hunting for cheap kills after deccing the corp I was in. I just happen to accept that it’s a perfectly valid, -necessary even for some aspects of the game- mechanic.

See Lady Ayeipsia above me here. You want to declare war for giggles? Sure, let’s make you fight well, everyone. And that’s done by blanket wardecs against everyone you see. You want to declare war for a purpose, be it an extension of economic competition or just because someone is being a rancid douchecanoe and needs a lesson? That should not force you to fight the entire universe.

[Lena_Crews]

@Daliena_Talvanen

@Lena_Crews

And all I’m saying is that if you’re the type of person who thinks it’s fine to go around and shoot people’s faces that you don’t like… a good samaritan should be able to step and and beat the crap out of you in response… and not have to bribe concord with another wardec to do so.

I’m not sure why adding more content for the ones looking for a fight is a bad thing.

I have never, EVER in my life been a part of an offensive war. In a past life on a different character I lost some of my first cruisers to people roaming around in a gang of T3’s hunting for cheap kills after deccing the corp I was in. I just happen to accept that it’s a perfectly valid, -necessary even for some aspects of the game- mechanic.

See Lady Ayeipsia above me here. You want to declare war for giggles? Sure, let’s make you fight well, everyone. And that’s done by blanket wardecs against everyone you see. You want to declare war for a purpose, be it an extension of economic competition or just because someone is being a rancid douchecanoe and needs a lesson? That should not force you to fight the entire universe.

Just set the suspect timer when the aggressor in a war attacks a war target in a non-mutual war. Effectively you are equating declaring war on another corp and attacking their ships to be the equivalent of flipping a can. Is that really too dangerous for people who are intentionally declaring war to handle? Really?

[Daliena_Talvanen]

@Lena_Crews

Just set the suspect timer when the aggressor in a war attacks a war target in a non-mutual war. Effectively you are equating declaring war on another corp and attacking their ships to be the equivalent of flipping a can. Is that really too dangerous for people who are intentionally declaring war to handle? Really?

Let’s get back to that topic when you get 24 hour warning before can flippers can do it to you, and any and all potential can flippers will be very obviously marked in local the second they enter rather than the first warning being someone warping to the belt in an industrial.

Seriously, who WOULDN’T surround themselves with some neutral friends waiting to pounce in and obliterate anyone trying to attack?