And that’s a GOOD thing. Wars in high-sec are nearly always boring one-sided affairs. This would make them fun and interesting where random strangers might come in a ruin the carefully laid plans of the wardeccer (just like a 3rd party fleet in null could come in and change the direction of a battle).
What you are talking about is what we should all want from high-sec wars. Actual… battles.
Ah, so all the grumbling about neutral logi I see, that makes sense. But when it’s something exclusively helping the poor defenders, then it’s only fair that neutrals be allowed in on it? You want actual battles, how about you defend yourself with your friends? If that keeps the wardeccers away, well I’d say that’s objective accomplished if they’re simply looking for cheap kills.
Now let’s get back to how you would solve the situation so that you can deal with these big mean cheap kills cheap thrills people, WITHOUT crippling the people who declare war for valid reasons. You’ve got two corporations with roughly equal power, and one is hamstringing the other because they simply got there first with POCO’s, or their timezone is better for mining out belts before the other one wakes up yet. Or any other number of such reasons.
In this case, corp #2 is supposed to just suck it up and declare war on the entire universe if they want to take on their direct competitor who’s trying to completely strangle their business? So in other words, actual war? No no. Economic destruction? A-OK. That about right?
(Also, while I’m no Null expert, I’d wager that they keep scouts out there to see if there’s incoming. Do you just warn about literally every single neutral in high-sec? Good luck with that one.)
I don’t believe I’ve ever grumbled about neutral logi. But whatever.
You’re viewing this as a personal fight for me but really it isn’t. My alliance is in null and gets wardecced mainly by big pirate groups like PIRAT or the Marmite collective. I just don’t go to high-sec until after the war is over (as I only go back once every couple of months or so anyway). It’s an inconvenience and not a problem.
So… this isn’t really about what benefits me.
But the fact is what I see with wardecs is mostly more powerful groups declaring war against mostly non-combat groups. Those groups either stay docked, disband and reform their corp or break up… but the deccer gets a couple of kills before that happens. They are one-sided and boring.
By making the actual attack cause a suspect timer, the war declarer has to be more careful. Ambushing a target in a belt? Go for it. Maybe it’s a trap, maybe it’s not… but there are no random neutrals there to bother you. If it is a trap it’s not all that different than one with in-war pilots doing the trapping. What it prevents is guys sitting on gates or stations with long range damage ships blapping war targets as soon as they jump through or undock… because there will be neutrals there who might attack if they go suspect when taking such an action.
This doesn’t prevent you from mugging your war targets. It simply makes it a bit more dangerous to do in front of witnesses. Find the miner in a belt… kill him… then safe up until your weapons timer ends and dock up until your suspect timer ends. Then repeat.
So let’s try this again… How do we create a solution that troubles the “War dec for fun and easy kills” people, WITHOUT crippling the legitimate power struggle wars? Majority or minority, those still deserve consideration too. Or are we to make it so that any war in high sec can only be pursued if you have absolute, massive, overwhelming superiority over your opponent to the point that you can punch out any and all neutrals that may be present too?
All that does is consolidate people into even larger groups, and ensure even more uneven fights.
Until you can answer that, I don’t think there’s much to be said here.
Yes, yes it is clear you just want to nerf wars into oblivion. You have decided all wars are bad (probably because they inconvenience you personally), thus are disingenuously proposing an “idea” to make them better which we all know, yourself included, it will just stop them almost entirely.
Highsec wars are not there to generate random battles. If you want instant random fights, there are plenty of places outside of highsec you can find them. They are there to enable player groups to honourably fight each other in highsec with defined sides and with warning, and also the only mechanism remove their otherwise invulnerable structures. They provide a controlled space for two sides to settle their differences and fight over objectives in highsec.
If you declare war on a corporation to remove some POCOs is it “fun” to have a 3rd party fleet stumble upon you and chase you away? Of course not, your objective is to take a set of POCOs for yourself and you are not interested in random LOL fights with strangers. No one, but the largest and most organized mercenary groups would use the mechanic under such punitive conditions. Besides,If you want random fights in highsec you and your fleet can always just go suspect and sit on a gate. No need to repurpose wars for that.
Well, you are not the first to propose such a terrible idea and won’t be the last I am sure. Wars can use some attention, but there is zero chance of CCP ever implementing this particular idea. I am sure they would prefer to remove wars entirely and introduce a new system to contest structures in highsec than make wars straight out useless for everyone but the largest mercenary corporation in highsec and the massive nullsec groups.
Personally, I favour the social corp solution where players can have their own NPC-corp equivalent corporation that is immune to wardecs but cannot own structures or have any other benefits of a player corp. That would still allow competitive corps to use wars to honourably fight each other over objectives, but still provide some space for smaller and more casual groups to have a shared identity.
Your idea though? A complete non-starter.
What game are you playing?
I’m sorry, I started Eve in 2006 and I’ve never even heard of an “honorable fight”. Are you seriously this deluded about how Eve works?
Eve wars are about a stronger side bashing a weaker side. It’s not about honor. It’s not about structures (the weaker side having structures is immaterial). It’s about dog piling.
What wars need is for a declaration to result in good fights as opposed to boring dogpiles. If you don’t think my suggestion will do that… fine. But your talk about “honor” is making me vomit in my mouth. Go play some other game if you’re looking for that sort of thing… Eve is not about honorable fights.
Why do you think a suspect timer would have that result?
People operate with suspect timers all the time in Eve. THis isn’t a new mechanic that we are unsure how to handle… this is something we already know how to deal with.
The net result on wars would be a reduction in gate and station camping by the aggressor in a war declaration. Those are the locations where a random person or group might take a potshot at the suspect player.
Any other place, the neutrals would have to hunt them down with some knowledge that a war aggressor was about to attack a war target. That requires coordination with the group being attacked… which indicates they could/would already be doing that in the current system (just through other mechanics).
I frankly can’t see a problem with one group wanting to declare war to clear out citadels from another group… if that group all of a sudden ambushes them with a neutral fleet once they start citadel bashing. I don’t think the war deck mechanic should be required for those coming to the aid of the victim of a war declaration. Maybe I have crap in that citadel and there’s no station present. Maybe I have an alt in that corp and I have other combat pilots who can defend it. That’s the risk you take by declaring war. Why should you have the certainty that attacking that corporation is safe?
Want to ambush them with a third party? Pay a third party to declare war on the corp that wardecced you. Hell plenty out there will do it for FREE with some of those larger merc corps who do nothing but harass highsec corps. Seen it happen plenty of times. That’s your balancing factor, it’s not just 1v1, you can make it 2v1, 3v1, 10v1, if you want to. It’s all about how resourceful you want to be about it. The proposed idea you have simply isn’t going to happen. As has been said, you aren’t the first to propose it.
Why anyone would want to fight wardeccers is beyond me. Just get an NPC corp alt to do your high-sec business and you won’t have to deal with them.
If you own structures in high-sec, go disposable with full knowledge that they will eventually get blown up by wardeccers, or hire mercenaries to help defend them. Properly-fitted astrahuses/fortizars with modest sub-cap support require massive fleets to tear down.
Wardeccing is such a stupid mechanic no matter how you slice it that you might as well take measures to ignore it instead of trying to fight it. Let the high-sec clown mercs have fun feeling like hot stuff while the real men do their business in low/null.
On the other hand, working together to defend your assets builds camaraderie. That is important when trying to build a real corp. It is no different than building your first orca together or any other project. It can also be a good first step towards the deeper end of the EVE pool.
Sure! And that’s such a beautiful thing to vie for!
But a small 50-100 man corp will still lose to a 500+ man wardeccing alliance with rattlesnake fleets to throw at structures.
So should CCP make it so that a 500+ man alliance isn’t able to wardec small groups?
You obviously are talking about a hi sec merc group as few other hi sec groups grow that large. There are other options at this point and all will help you grow as an eve player as they teach you alternative methods of conflict.
Sell them the structure in question and bargain for low tax or access rights. This works surprisingly well.
Relocate. Most mercs settle around trade hubs hoping to catch easy targets. They have a long list of enemies and the hub offers the best chance. By moving to say Khanid Kingdom or Derelik. There is ample empty space even in hi sec. Use neutral alts for hauling and you will be fine.
Become the hunter. Get a few corpmate to become neutral logi. Then bait with something decent and a support fleet logged off nearby. It’s not that hard as many mercs won’t leave the trade hub area so those that do tend to be unsupported. Alternatively, view it as a holiday. Get your corp in cheap clones and run a fleet of cheap frigs. Even if you kill just one enemy ship, the loss tends to exceed your frig fleet. You get a green killboard and the mercs become a tad more weary, will only come in numbers and with good scouting, you’ll know they are coming long before they reach you. Then… Use the age old tactic of weaponized boredom. Dock up and log off. They quickly learn to look for targets else where.
It really isn’t hard to survive a war Dec even from the biggest groups and by working together to get through the war Dec, your corp will come out stronger.
This issue has been beaten to death. The solution is simple and took me a while to see the wisdom of the answer even if the answer is a bit snarky. GET OUT OF HIGH_SEC . It doesn’t sound helpful does it? I had the same attitude before I finally moved out to nul-sec. I’m not trying to sound snarky but between the gankers, griefers, CODE, competition, wardecs and low ISK payout high-sec just isn’t worth it. Yes, the rats are tougher and PvP will see you more expensive losses but they are far less frequent than you might imagine.
If you give it a try with a halfway decent alliance you’ll soon hate going to high-sec for almost anything.
I won’t suggest anything because I don’t care enough to make any. I’m just pointing out how stupid of a mechanic wardeccing is. I don’t need to have any stake in something to still recognize it’s stupid.
Oh yes definitely. I have like 15 active wardecs right now, last I checked my stuff is still fine. Mostly because it’s in null-sec which is where it really matters. And also because I use a neutral NPC corp alt to do the few high-sec things I need.
Yes, and this just highlights Malcanis’ point he made about war decs.
There is not enough common ground here for a serious discussion. Those getting war decced generally do not like PvP (combat PvP) at all. Those who do war decs do not want to take on serious business fight. Each side wants to shift the balance of power in their favor.
Malcanis makes another excellent point that HS is seen as being so safe that most players fail to take even modest precautions…in fact many players actually put themselves at excessive risk than come and cry here on the forums.
You can’t gank a freighter very often in NS. Same with mining ships. The reason for this is that the mechanics in NS work so that it is actually less safe, so players living there take precautions and adapt to that environment.
And Malcanis raises another good point. That HS non-consensual PvP has been repeated nerfed. Yet here we are with people still crying like bitches. The “just one more nerf and it will be fixed” is largely just ■■■■■■■■.
So, we have the “aggressors” go suspect. What will war deccers likely do as a response? Just give up and leave the game (great idea by the way, killing a play style so people quit)? They might actually just go roaming around and doing stuff in even larger groups…that is supposing some other players actually take advantage of this mechanic. This might push war deccers into even larger groups…which will elicit and new round of crying by the little babies on these forums.
Oh and look we have been losing HS content and look…logins have been dropping too. Gee, I’m sure there is nothing going on there.
You do realize of course that you can join defensive wars, at any time, for free right?
If you want to be a good Samaritan and fight against the evil wardeccers then do it. Create a corp dedicated to doing just that. Recruit like-minded individuals. And offer your defensive services to any corps that are getting wardeced.
The wardec corp put the same kind of effort in to create their group. Why can’t you do the same?
When will people learn, that there is no point in trying to argument rationally with emotional thinkers, who by definition, can not think rationally?
There’s no point. They’re not even trolling, it’s a different way of thinking, and there is no way of getting through with logic or reason.
It is threads like these that could make me come back to EVE.
That would be good. We are missing those dashing neerdowells. Too many of the pirates, criminals, amd mischief makers are just run of the mill and boring.